ChrisMidWales · Sunday at 20:07

My Freelander 1 pre-facelift Td4 takes longer than normal to start. It has never failed to start but it may take 6-7 or more turn overs (if that’s a thing) before it fires up. There is no smoke when it does and again it has never failed to start.
My question is, what could be causing this and what can I do to improve it.
Thank you.

lynall · Sunday at 20:27

Common issues on many common rail engines is for one injector to leak off to much fuel not allowing the common rail to reach the pressures needed to start the engine.

Quick dirty test is squirt some easy start and if it fires straight away you have a good idea it is a duff injector, you can buy test kits to see which injector is on its way out.

Atomician · Sunday at 20:30

I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

110tim · Sunday at 20:45

ChrisMidWales said:
My Freelander 1 pre-facelift Td4 takes longer than normal to start. It has never failed to start but it may take 6-7 or more turn overs (if that’s a thing) before it fires up. There is no smoke when it does and again it has never failed to start.
My question is, what could be causing this and what can I do to improve it.
Thank you.

I had exactly the same thing and it was a leaky injector, a Bosch rebuild that had done only 30,000 miles, a leak back test kit found the problem

110tim · Sunday at 20:47

Atomician said:
I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

heat plugs are seldom needed on a TD4 and head gaskets seem to last for ever

ChrisMidWales · Sunday at 20:58

Atomician said:
I have an ES '53 plate TD4, and it's always needed the ignition turning over for longer then normal before starting cold. Initially I thought it was a glow plug issue which is fairly common on these models, at 70-90k miles there's a tendency for glow plugs to reach end of life.

I tested the plugs, one wasn't working and others were fine. Replaced the non working one - would have done them all if I could get them out but they were pretty seized in there and I drive it daily so didn't have the time to work on them more.

It got slightly better but never went away though, so I'm presuming I also have an injector issue, again not uncommon. When hot it always starts well, when cold I generally turn it over 3 sets of times, a few seconds each, to get it started. Every once in a while I get a perfect start but rare.

Replacing simple parts I'm ok with but messing with injectors is out of my league so it's been left there.

If you're sure no smoke then it's unlikely to be head gasket. Might be worth checking glow plugs, but if would have thought there would be plenty of smoke if it were these. Maybe the fuel isn't getting to engine quick enough, maybe a blockage or fuel pump/ sensor is feeling it's age?

Is it a regular driver or does it get left for long periods?

It’s my daily drive. I’m comfortable with smaller jobs but I’ve heard injectors can be hard.

Freddie17 · Sunday at 21:39

… try the easy-start test as @lynall suggests. It’ll give you an indication for a couple of quid, before you start getting in to the harder stuff.

If you’ve not long had it, run some Comma diesel magic or similar through it for a couple of (half) tanks of fuel - you may find that shifts some of the built up gunk.

ChrisMidWales · Sunday at 21:40

lynall said:
Common issues on many common rail engines is for one injector to leak off to much fuel not allowing the common rail to reach the pressures needed to start the engine.

Quick dirty test is squirt some easy start and if it fires straight away you have a good idea it is a duff injector, you can buy test kits to see which injector is on its way out.

Where do you squirt the easy start?

Freddie17 · Sunday at 21:45

Into the air intake - just 1 or 2 seconds, then turn the key.
Dont worry about trying to reconnect the intake, just turn the key - it’ll fire up.

Just make sure you don’t have a loose hose clip or something that will fall off (down!) when she starts…

Freddie17 · Sunday at 21:46

Ideally, read the live data and you’ll see the fuel pressures

Arctic2 · Monday at 10:21

Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

ChrisMidWales · Monday at 10:32

Arctic2 said:
Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

That sounds good. I was under the assumption that you can get them stuck in and they snap and cause a world of hurt.

Arctic2 · Monday at 10:58

ChrisMidWales said:
That sounds good. I was under the assumption that you can get them stuck in and they snap and cause a world of hurt.

Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Diesel Injector Flow Diagnostic Detector Tester Inject Common Rail Test Tool Kit | eBay

Anodized hanging bottle rack for engine bay. 6 x Adapter: for Bosch injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Delphi injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Denso injectors. Suitable for a range of vehicle injectors. Our tools are top quality products and will not be beaten on performance.

www.ebay.co.uk

US PRO Tools Flow Meter Common Rail Injector Leak Off Back Diesel Test Kit 5233 | eBay

Supplied in a blow moulded storage case. Wright tools 4u has been serving the automotive industry for over 25years. Wright tools 4u.

www.ebay.co.uk

ChrisMidWales · Monday at 11:58

Arctic2 said:
Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Diesel Injector Flow Diagnostic Detector Tester Inject Common Rail Test Tool Kit | eBay

Anodized hanging bottle rack for engine bay. 6 x Adapter: for Bosch injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Delphi injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Denso injectors. Suitable for a range of vehicle injectors. Our tools are top quality products and will not be beaten on performance.

www.ebay.co.uk

US PRO Tools Flow Meter Common Rail Injector Leak Off Back Diesel Test Kit 5233 | eBay

Supplied in a blow moulded storage case. Wright tools 4u has been serving the automotive industry for over 25years. Wright tools 4u.

www.ebay.co.uk

Incredibly helpful thank you very much. It must be the glow plugs that I have heard of sheering before coming out.

ChrisMidWales · Monday at 12:46

Arctic2 said:
Trick is make sure the engine is hot and it helps with removal of injector.

1

2

3

4

always best to clean round the injector with an hose before hand.

5

6

7

leak back test is best way to check the injectors.

8

9

10

you are looking for minimum 20mm or less over 2 minute test with engine on tick over.

Diesel Injector Flow Diagnostic Detector Tester Inject Common Rail Test Tool Kit | eBay

Anodized hanging bottle rack for engine bay. 6 x Adapter: for Bosch injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Delphi injectors. 6 x Adapter: for Denso injectors. Suitable for a range of vehicle injectors. Our tools are top quality products and will not be beaten on performance.

www.ebay.co.uk

US PRO Tools Flow Meter Common Rail Injector Leak Off Back Diesel Test Kit 5233 | eBay

Supplied in a blow moulded storage case. Wright tools 4u has been serving the automotive industry for over 25years. Wright tools 4u.

www.ebay.co.uk

Just been looking now. I’ve seen injectors for over £200 each. Is their a budget brand you would recommend or are they garbage.

lynall · Monday at 12:49

Arctic2 said:
Not good practice to use easy start, but on single occasion maybe ok, leak back test is the way forward if no diagnosis test is available, injectors are not that hard to remove just time consuming, you can get an awkward one which may need the slide hammer, changed out quiet a few.

It could also be the HPFP regulator O-rings starting to fail, once they fail the car will have an hard time of starting at all.

Easy start/brake cleaner, you would be surprised what gets used in commercial garages, engines all fine afterwards.
PS easy start also works to seat tyres on their beads.

Freddie17 · Monday at 13:13

ChrisMidWales said:
Just been looking now. I’ve seen injectors for over £200 each. Is their a budget brand you would recommend or are they garbage.

… your issue is that the engine turns over a bit before firing, and you are now onto looking at new injectors :stars:

Diagnose the issue before worrying about what it ‘might’ be!

ChrisMidWales · Monday at 13:22

True. I have clonk when going over bumps especially whilst turning and so far I’m renewing bits of suspension constantly chasing it.

lynall · Monday at 14:45

ChrisMidWales said:
True. I have clonk when going over bumps especially whilst turning and so far I’m renewing bits of suspension constantly chasing it.

ARB bushes or top mac strutt bearings.

ChrisMidWales · Monday at 15:19

lynall said:
ARB bushes or top mac strutt bearings.

I have both on order and will be doing wishbone

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