So lets get this straight, you spent loads of time and effort researching what battery to get, yet you bodged the battery terminal when a new one is cheap enough and easy enough to fit.

I would also bet a pint or two that neasly all old lead acid batteries are recycled into new batteries.
 
So lets get this straight, you spent loads of time and effort researching what battery to get, yet you bodged the battery terminal when a new one is cheap enough and easy enough to fit.

I would also bet a pint or two that neasly all old lead acid batteries are recycled into new batteries.

I think this is the main reason you don’t actually “own” the battery when you buy a Nissan Leaf. So they can recycle them at the end of the useable life cycle.

For the next few years, I will stick with my trusty lead acid battery.
 
So lithium ion batteries are less toxic then lead acid batteries?

One of the main sources of lithium is from Chile where there are environmental problems from the extraction of lithium causing health problems to the local population.

Where are lithium batteries made? Yes in that environmentally friendly country known as China which has the highest environmental protection standards going (not!)

Currently the lithium from lithium ion batteries is not recycled as the cost of the lithium from recycled batteries is severer all times that of fresh mined lithium.

Much simpler to reuse lead from standard lead acid batteries.!

As for environmentally friendly electric vehicles. Yes they may well kick out less pollution per mile travelled then the standard ‘dirty’ fossil fuelled vehicle. However the environmental impact of the production of EV is much greater then the ‘dirty’ fossil fuel vehicles. Various studies have claimed different different time spans/mileage for an EV to be on par with a fossil fuel vehicle and it is about 8 years/80,000 miles before an EV is cleaner then a ‘dirty’ fossil fuel vehicle.


Brendan
 
..That's what had me scratching my head as well, I think the only logical reason can be the extra AH means you can leave it longer with voltage drain and still be startable? I would rather have a lifepo4 and a lithium jump starter / usb charger I can charge in the house and/or a solar trickle charger on roof???

That they are cheap and just not at all innovative was another I read in a forum or two on my researching this... to the fact that the only companies less innovative than car companies is car company parts suppliers... and they still push lumps of poison and acid that give off gasses.

This is also the industry has given us Dieselgate and managed to flog I don't know how many generations of Prius to the gullible as "environmental", loaded to the hilt with lead from Africa refined in Canada, Built in Japan and been half way round the world before even started on energy to build ...while the defender with very high double digit percentages of them still on the road, all built with british pig iron and alloy in Birmingham and can be fixed with a spanner, welder and hammer, 70 years on seen as less environmentally friendly. While the world is happy "recycling" single use Nespresso capsules as long as they did not arrive in a 5p plastic bag, this must be one of the few relics that has not been jumped on yet by the press???

Wow I am grumpy today :)

I had a women moan at me about my ‘gas guzzling’ defender whilst in the ferry que over to north Uist. I said exactly the same and she soon ****ed off.
 
So lets get this straight, you spent loads of time and effort researching what battery to get, yet you bodged the battery terminal when a new one is cheap enough and easy enough to fit.

I would also bet a pint or two that neasly all old lead acid batteries are recycled into new batteries.

new terminals ordered, not sure where the “bodge” is though? are you referring to the shim? 12v battery shims are sold commercially for the reason I had to make one, most not from anything as conductive as copper for cost reasons! I was not about to give up on an install while waiting for new terminals.

You would hope the lead is recycled, especially as weight for weight there is over 10x more of it (20-30kg vs 2kg) and they last 3 times less in terms of lifespan / charge cycles.

Did I mention also how much more beer and wine I can bring back from trips to continent... its win-win all the way really ;)
 
So lithium ion batteries are less toxic then lead acid batteries?

One of the main sources of lithium is from Chile where there are environmental problems from the extraction of lithium causing health problems to the local population.

Where are lithium batteries made? Yes in that environmentally friendly country known as China which has the highest environmental protection standards going (not!)

Currently the lithium from lithium ion batteries is not recycled as the cost of the lithium from recycled batteries is severer all times that of fresh mined lithium.

Much simpler to reuse lead from standard lead acid batteries.!

As for environmentally friendly electric vehicles. Yes they may well kick out less pollution per mile travelled then the standard ‘dirty’ fossil fuelled vehicle. However the environmental impact of the production of EV is much greater then the ‘dirty’ fossil fuel vehicles. Various studies have claimed different different time spans/mileage for an EV to be on par with a fossil fuel vehicle and it is about 8 years/80,000 miles before an EV is cleaner then a ‘dirty’ fossil fuel vehicle.


Brendan
Sorry, was not suggesting lithium is any more environmentally friendly than Lead, but there is way less lithium used, it is not suspended in acid, and it lasts a lot longer.

On the recycle point; other than making more (at some point to be obsolete) lead acid batteries what else is such huge amounts of lead going to be recycled into when there are no more lead acid batteries out of interest?
 
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Gucci lithium Ion batteries - How do they charge?
I've got a couple of motorbikes with optimate chargers - when I toyed with the idea of getting lithium batteries I was put off by the fact that I'd need to buy a new Optimate designed for the lithium battery. This added to the cost of the battery made me bin the idea.
18v power tools - different chargers for the newer lithium batteries than the old NiCd / Ni/Mh.

But when a battery is on the vehicle, surely it charges from the normal alternator as you drive along.

Am I missing something, or is the need to buy new chargers a con?
 
Adding to exmed wayne's post.
I fly radio control model aircraft and some are electric powerd by brushless motors and lithium batterys,the power to weight ratio of these are way above what the old NiCd / NiMh could provide.
The chargers used are set just for the lithium batterys,the unit charges each cell individually and monitors them so that when fully charged the cell's are all at the same level and balanced. This maintains battery perfomance.
 
Battery Management Systems are built into most Lithium batteries for use with Pedelec, I can't imagine usage in a Vehicle would be radically any different TBH.
 
tottot -
Adding to exmed wayne's post.
The chargers used are set just for the lithium batterys,the unit charges each cell individually and monitors them so that when fully charged the cell's are all at the same level and balanced. This maintains battery perfomance.

Does that mean that if you put a Lithium battery on a landrover, you should ideally wire in a little box / charger / monitor thingy between the alternator and battery?
or is this already built in to the battery?
or do we just randomly put in 13-15v from the alternator each time we run the engine?

I might have to do some google searching :rolleyes:
 
hmmmmm....
Think I'll stick to cheaper lead batteries for the now......

"Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications. "

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
 
Gucci lithium Ion batteries - How do they charge?
I've got a couple of motorbikes with optimate chargers - when I toyed with the idea of getting lithium batteries I was put off by the fact that I'd need to buy a new Optimate designed for the lithium battery. This added to the cost of the battery made me bin the idea.
18v power tools - different chargers for the newer lithium batteries than the old NiCd / Ni/Mh.

But when a battery is on the vehicle, surely it charges from the normal alternator as you drive along.

Am I missing something, or is the need to buy new chargers a con?
You are right: You have to check on the battery and whether they have crucially a) as you point out the ability to take a current from an alternator, and b) that this charger / management essentially built in will cut out the battery stop stop it overcharging / draining too low that it dies. The powerlite unit has both, and if you look at their site they also make alternators for loads of old vehicles, I only got has far as V8 rover units, but saw enough in that and the feedback to know they know their stuff. Interestingly the video that got me thinking about this: had a battery die on him from over draining and his solution was an isolator, which many have on their landies. Its a shame as that battery has a bluetooth module to show you its battery level, do not know if that is post this video or not, in which case if they install something so clever it has bluetooth, you would hope it would be clever enough to cut out as well...
 
hmmmmm....
Think I'll stick to cheaper lead batteries for the now......

"Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications. "

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
It is worth noting that a) there is a load of crap out there on the internet in terms of ageing, memory, etc. and b) lithium has had a huge amount of innovation put into it even in the last 2-3 years we have seen warranties on lithium has gone from 1-3 years to over 10 years. All batteries age with usage (and lead acid uniquely with no usage) and its worth noting that this deterioration is more related with charge cycles, not age... and lithium will usually accept thousands of vs hundreds of charge cycles of lead acid, so not sure where you are getting ageing being a concern for lithium??? This particular battery can be stored used for 2 years according to manufacturer... by which time your lead acid could have burned a hole through the seat box. Actually my first job before sealing holes in the seatbox, was curing all the acid pitting and consequent rust under the where the lead acid battery had been, or could just be the weight of battery and mud and grit in under the battery in the battery tray?

Anyway, to add sum up again; lead acid is disappearing... lithium appears to be the way forward - you may or may not want to be an early adopter of this depending on how you use your landy and whether you / your equipment needs a smaller amount of quality volts with no drop off, or you need raw ah, if its the latter then its clearly not for you. etc, etc. Another couple of thoughts are if you do wade a lot, the small size of lithium and the fact that you could seal it up in theory in some kind of sealed container / move to the dashboard / cubby box its so small. but then if you do wade a lot chances are you have a winch so... Anyway, all I need is quick cranking that is more temperature resistant and better quality voltage as I have a lot of trackers, wifi routers, etc in the vehicle (I work in mobile tech) and I like looking to future and freeing up some space as I drive through France a lot and leaving stuff on show their is a guaranteed broken window IME. Finally: Do not know if there is a theft deterrent angle here as well, being able to move a smaller battery unit / hide a secondary one? I bet you could even fit one in the lockable boxes that go into the fake air intake on opposite wing to blower intake...
 
hmmmmm....
Think I'll stick to cheaper lead batteries for the now......

"Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications. "

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
That article is from 2010! Its ancient... the ageing they mention precludes about 3 generations of battery evolution!
https://www.eag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/M-025517_Improving-Performance-and-Safety-of-Lithium-Ion-Batteries_Fig3.jpg
 
tottot -


Does that mean that if you put a Lithium battery on a landrover, you should ideally wire in a little box / charger / monitor thingy between the alternator and battery?
or is this already built in to the battery?
or do we just randomly put in 13-15v from the alternator each time we run the engine?

I might have to do some google searching :rolleyes:
From what I have understood from the one I have bought that is built in
 

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