deeper wading depth and ability to fit larger tyres sold it to me
My understanding is, a suspension "lift" kit doesn't give better clearance for tyres, because once a spring is compressed, the wheel will be in the same position as the original suspension would have been in a similar situation.
Its advantage lies in 1) greater articulation and 2) greater ground clearance in its at rest position.
Of course, not all suspension lifts are the same......simply adding spacer blocks, for example, WOULD give the extra clearance for bigger tyres BUT not any extra articulation; or maybe somewhere in between.
For various reasons, I'd never simply fit spacer blocks, or chassis lift, or bigger bump stops, to my car.
V8_Disco
New Member
and how does that work exactly? greater departure angles and breakover angles maybe but the diffs are still going to be the same height from the floor
You've answered your own question there. It provides greater approach, departure and breakover angles. With the large sticky-out rear end of a Disco, its got to be worth something?
It depends on the type of off roading, driving down rutted tracks aint really "extreme", but crawling over boulders or undulating terrain, all the clearance you can get (without going too far and affecting your C of G too much) is handy to have. All IMHO of course.
This pic kinda illustrates why you might want "just a bit more" underbelly clearance:
Mr Noisy
Coming in your ears.
well, my understanding if lifting a car is this:
add longer springs, dampers and bump stops to generally move the whole suspension system downwards.
add radius and trailing arms to correct geometry.
then fit larger tyres.
suspension still has similar/same travel, but it's range of movement is moved away from the body, allowing larger tyres to be fitted, which at the end of the day is what it's all about, because diffs are always always always digging in and getting you stuck.
so now that you are lifted, you have more room for tyres (why not fit longer bump stops btw?!), better approach, departure and breakover angles, better wading depth (snorkel yes, but the less of you in the water the better) and minimal increase in roll, due to higher weight springs usually being specced.
triallers will often not need a large tyre, but those who run greenlanes and off road sites which are heavily rutted need the biggest tyres they can for a trouble free day, else the deep ruts just get you beached all the time - and is not the best way to do that is lift the suspension?!
add longer springs, dampers and bump stops to generally move the whole suspension system downwards.
add radius and trailing arms to correct geometry.
then fit larger tyres.
suspension still has similar/same travel, but it's range of movement is moved away from the body, allowing larger tyres to be fitted, which at the end of the day is what it's all about, because diffs are always always always digging in and getting you stuck.
so now that you are lifted, you have more room for tyres (why not fit longer bump stops btw?!), better approach, departure and breakover angles, better wading depth (snorkel yes, but the less of you in the water the better) and minimal increase in roll, due to higher weight springs usually being specced.
triallers will often not need a large tyre, but those who run greenlanes and off road sites which are heavily rutted need the biggest tyres they can for a trouble free day, else the deep ruts just get you beached all the time - and is not the best way to do that is lift the suspension?!
It goes to show that there is no one universal best setup for a car. Different terrain favours different things.
The reason I mentioned bump stops is that articulation is pretty important, especially since one of the (standard) Land Rover's weaknesses is no locking or limited slip diff. So you really need to keep ideally both axles wheels (all 4) or at least one axle's wheels firmly on the ground. So if you lift eg 2" up (with the almost 2" increase in C of G as the negative effect....) I'd want that translated into 2" extra articulation or more, I'd not want to compromise it and have to fit bigger bump stops and only gain eg 1" articulation. Of course, you can make the suspension droop a little further (dislocating coils, etc) but there is a relationship between the position of the wheel (compressed or extended on the suspension) and the amount of weight on that wheel, which then influences the amount of traction.
The reason I mentioned bump stops is that articulation is pretty important, especially since one of the (standard) Land Rover's weaknesses is no locking or limited slip diff. So you really need to keep ideally both axles wheels (all 4) or at least one axle's wheels firmly on the ground. So if you lift eg 2" up (with the almost 2" increase in C of G as the negative effect....) I'd want that translated into 2" extra articulation or more, I'd not want to compromise it and have to fit bigger bump stops and only gain eg 1" articulation. Of course, you can make the suspension droop a little further (dislocating coils, etc) but there is a relationship between the position of the wheel (compressed or extended on the suspension) and the amount of weight on that wheel, which then influences the amount of traction.
V8_Disco
New Member
goes back to the age old question of articulation vs traction, it it better to have extreme suspension or locking diffs, both would be the best idea but not everyone has the cash to put lockers on landrover axles, as coupled with oversized tyres the half shafts just cant handle it
Aye, and a million other things like picking the best line (or best line for your car or setup), knowing when to apply the throttle or not, knowing what speed to approach things etc. For example, had I not posted the above pic, instead tried to describe a situation involving an immovable obstruction which would just ground out the car, a reasonable suggestion might have been to drive a bit faster at it and scrape over. But if you knew what came just after the rock, you'd not really want to do that....
Apologies for the waffle but at the end of the day you can 'drive round' the lack of suspension lift to a certain extent, and with the negatives (as well as the cost itself) of a lift, most non-extreme situations don't need it.
Hence my original question......"are you really sure you need it"?
Apologies for the waffle but at the end of the day you can 'drive round' the lack of suspension lift to a certain extent, and with the negatives (as well as the cost itself) of a lift, most non-extreme situations don't need it.
Hence my original question......"are you really sure you need it"?
Mr Noisy
Coming in your ears.
you dont really need it no, the vehicle will be very capable at standard height.
but you are going to struggle with them small tyres on!
just look at camel trophy discos, it proves what can be done with knobblys, a winch and a few guards.
all the gear that us lot bolt onto the cars just means that we can drive through stuff which another guy might have to drive through in anger to make it through.
but then all our mods are gonna cause negatives in other areas, perticularly the wallet!
on the subject of lockers, i am seriously considering aiming towards buying arbs front and rear.
probably dont REALLY need them, but then again it's just the ability to avoid getting the winch out that you pay for. also of course with an arb you can turn it on and off, cant do that with a lift kit. i also think that if im very careful with the diff/s in, i should be able to ease myself out of a situation without breakage.
ie, drive in anger with open diffs = fine.
drive carefully with locked diffs = fine
drive in anger with locked diffs? no, get winch out, you deserve to be stuck this time
its all good fun anyway. i have lots of enjoyment out of building the truck, so i like buying, making and fitting bits, and making improvements along the way etc, so my projects always tend to be well specced but usually in bits int' garage.
other guys cant be bothered with the mods, they just wana go out and get muddy, and fix it if it breaks - and they'll probably be happy without a lift.
definitely each to their own then
but you are going to struggle with them small tyres on!
just look at camel trophy discos, it proves what can be done with knobblys, a winch and a few guards.
all the gear that us lot bolt onto the cars just means that we can drive through stuff which another guy might have to drive through in anger to make it through.
but then all our mods are gonna cause negatives in other areas, perticularly the wallet!
on the subject of lockers, i am seriously considering aiming towards buying arbs front and rear.
probably dont REALLY need them, but then again it's just the ability to avoid getting the winch out that you pay for. also of course with an arb you can turn it on and off, cant do that with a lift kit. i also think that if im very careful with the diff/s in, i should be able to ease myself out of a situation without breakage.
ie, drive in anger with open diffs = fine.
drive carefully with locked diffs = fine
drive in anger with locked diffs? no, get winch out, you deserve to be stuck this time
its all good fun anyway. i have lots of enjoyment out of building the truck, so i like buying, making and fitting bits, and making improvements along the way etc, so my projects always tend to be well specced but usually in bits int' garage.
other guys cant be bothered with the mods, they just wana go out and get muddy, and fix it if it breaks - and they'll probably be happy without a lift.
definitely each to their own then
adam300tdi
Active Member
thre bought it all separatly and its cost them an absolute fortune.they sed its better but not that much beter for the money
V8_Disco
New Member
yes a full kit will cost atleast a grand
very rough prices:
cranked front arms - 200
cranked trailing arms - 150
brake hoses - 50
extended bump stops - 20
wide angle props - 300??
springs/shocks - 250
dislocation cones - 40
but for a 2 inch lift you dont need all that, but if your not doing much offroading then you dont really need a lift at all
