Don't forget that the Prius is a hybrid so not driving 100% on battery ?
Remember when we were told that diesel was the cleanest fuel and everyone bought them
When they want to push certain things on the population, they can make anything sound wonderful.

I think fossil fuel pollution is behind the move to electric cars, and like a prior post I think it is more complex than just how much pollution a car makes during it’s life.
My low polluting fiat panda cost $15k nzd to buy new in 2015, and will use 3000 gallons in 150,000 miles (circa $30,000 cost), when it will be scrapped most likely.
So energy consumed (for fuel) during it’s life is not that huge, but additional energy was used to make the car, and also the petrol it consumed (refine and distribute etc).
Given the higher amount of energy consumed making electric cars (which is reflected in their cost) there has to be doubt that overall they are more “energy efficient” during their life cycle, and therefore less polluting.
In the mix has to be where the electricity energy for cars will come from, although this is changing (wind power etc) a lot of electricity comes from burning fossil fuels! (and not particularly efficiently either).
I’m on the fence about the topic, but will get an electric car when the fiat expires in 5 or 10 years, but I think we should be able to keep our fossil fuel old cars going long after that if we want, after all doing so stops yet another new car being made doesn’t it!

guzzi lemans said:

Well here's a thing. The disco struggled to tow a fairly light trailer up the big hill on the A470 between Machyntlleth and Dolgellau, it's a trunk road so was surprised to see the sign at the bottom indicate it was a 20% (1 in 5) so quite steep and quite long too. Talking to the chap that services the log he advised me previously to put it into petrol because that is around 15 to 20% more power. Well it still struggled upon it, and didn't kick down into first until it was under 2000 rpm, then it shot up to around 4500 rpm, accelerating quite well. Bit disappointed in that, and as I've been considering Megasquirt I spoke to one of the guru's for that system, recounted the tale and as I had the latest emission figures was able to tell him what the CO, HC & Lambda results were, apparently the lambda indicates the engine is running really lean and if I do that again I'll melt the pistons. Oops.
Today I bought a nice 3 door TDI, 1996 R reg, so will see how that goes on our next trip to the lakes. At least I won't be harried by searching for log.
The v8 needs a connection to test book or whatever to determine which sensor has gone wrong.
So I now have a brace of blue disco's, or will have on Sunday.

By the way, my sister lives in Nelson, works in the visitor centre in the national park. Hope fully I'll be allowed a visit before I pop me clogs!

Cheers

am

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I have towed a caravan along parts of the A470 with one of Vauxhalls finest* and was on LPG, but running over lean is a risk, usual issue is a missmatch between petrol and gas trims. I used to drive that car pretty hard (because LPG) a V6 because it was happy to rev despite auto box.

One thing with EFI is that lambdas are consumables, I replaced all 4 on last car. Even if code readers say OK they wear out.

* last mass market car before FWD only

KiwiTDI said:

I think fossil fuel pollution is behind the move to electric cars, and like a prior post I think it is more complex than just how much pollution a car makes during it’s life.
My low polluting fiat panda cost $15k nzd to buy new in 2015, and will use 3000 gallons in 150,000 miles (circa $30,000 cost), when it will be scrapped most likely.
So energy consumed (for fuel) during it’s life is not that huge, but additional energy was used to make the car, and also the petrol it consumed (refine and distribute etc).
Given the higher amount of energy consumed making electric cars (which is reflected in their cost) there has to be doubt that overall they are more “energy efficient” during their life cycle, and therefore less polluting.
In the mix has to be where the electricity energy for cars will come from, although this is changing (wind power etc) a lot of electricity comes from burning fossil fuels! (and not particularly efficiently either).
I’m on the fence about the topic, but will get an electric car when the fiat expires in 5 or 10 years, but I think we should be able to keep our fossil fuel old cars going long after that if we want, after all doing so stops yet another new car being made doesn’t it!

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Yes, the modern small block turbo petrol engines are incredibly clean, economical and powerful, it is incredible the advances that have been made. It seems a shame they are soon being legally obsoleted to push the EV forward, especially when many countries have less than 25% renewable energy production
Like the saying goes, the cleanest car is the one already built

I believe that values will drop dramatically more effected by all the planned low emission zones that are coming in which will make older vehicles unusable in many areas. Unfortunately the Manchester LEZ that comes in next year has had the boundaries set to the whole of Greater Manchester not just the City parameter which will greatly affect me. They are not initially charging private cars but i have absolutely no doubts what so ever that this will change after its introduction.

Awaiting my new car which is a PEV. Complete tax dodge really. Was supposed to be this month but expect it'll be next year before it shows up, such is the component shortage

Firebobby1 said:

The amount of pollution caused by extracting the battery materials is so much more than it is to build a petrol/diesel car.

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Wrong. It's possible to extract and manufacture all EV components for lower carbon footprint than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

Firebobby1 said:

10 to 20 years, get real!
Where did you get that information.

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It's in industry standard, which all manufactures and other bodies now adhere to.
Here's an example from EDF.https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries

It may be possible to extract and manufacture EV components for less than an ICE car but the reality is different
https://www.industryweek.com/techno...acturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint

Nodge68 said:

Wrong. It's possible to extract and manufacture all EV components for lower carbon footprint than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

It's in industry standard, which all manufactures and other bodies now adhere to.
Here's an example from EDF.https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/batteries

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Amazing stats from a firm who sell electric, could say they have a vested interest.
And there's plenty of articles about how dirty it is to make electric vehicles, especially the batteries.
You mark my words, give it 10 to 15 years and the ev will be dead.
And Diesel will be king again

Firebobby1 said:

Amazing stats from a firm who sell electric, could say they have a vested interest.
And there's plenty of articles about how dirty it is to make electric vehicles, especially the batteries.

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It's simply not true as to the vested interest in the EV market.
These figures are industry standard, and now used as a datum.
To compare ICE to EV, you have to also include the CO2 emissions produced by finding the crude oil, pumping it, transportation, refining it, transportation of the refined fuel to the filling stations, before adding the actual burning of fuel to the mix.
Basically you need all the relevant information, not just what you put in the tank.
If all these factors are taken into account, and the CO2 produced when the vehicles are built, then the EV is cleaner, as far as CO2 per km is concerned.
A diesel vehicle produces an average of 173g of CO2 per km driven, this includes building the vehicle, extraction and moving its fuel, and finally burning it in the vehicle.

An average EV produces just over 70g per km driven, this includes building the vehicle, including the vehicle and battery materials, and also the CO2 from electricity used to charge it, so an EV is clearly better for the environment. https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/el...ODyWZ5TMHQlbHOEMgbbpzD-3SqdKxb-4aAiUQEALw_wcB

Hi all. Electricity, hmm.
It is interesting that as a result in the fire in the undersea link cable between France and UK that the coal powered station in Radcliffe on Stour is in use, a coal powered unit at Dax is being warmed up, and the wholesale cost of electricity is increasing. This allied to the lack of wind could cause rolling reductions in grid, as reported weeks ago due to a number of nuclear power stations being removed for maintenance. Where I live in North Wales there are lots of wind turbines, especially in the sea, and they are largely stationary. What is going to happen if most transport is from electricity, do you have to choose between a cup of tea or charge the vehicle? What happens if another cable interlink goes down or the French decide to deal with perfidious England tit for tat? That knocks the zero tailpipe argument into a cocked hat doesn't it, may as well use a steam engine and cut out the middleman?
I invested in PV panels years ago, today as it is cloudy they do not produce much more than required to power my needs, so no export. Same for the thermal panel for heating the water.
On another thing, the old tv went last week so replaced it with one of these OLED things, jolly good to see a picture for a change, but the so-called 'energy efficiency' certificate quoted it as a J, the worst. Modern technology has not improved energy use or so it seems. All of the available models in the shop were the same.
Looking at the London ULEZ web page, historic vehicles are unaffected (40 yrs plus old) so if I was misguided to want to go to London my old bikes would be ok, both discos in a further 15 years or so! None of the other proposed sites (Birmingham) will affect me as I would rather not go there or any city/large town. Will just have to see how it pans out over the next 9 years. My son has expressed an interest in the disco's so maybe it will be his worry by then!

Nelson, my sister says it is the sunshine capital of NZ, she has been there for 0ver 20 years now, after being at most of the other parks (Cook, Otega, Abel Tasman are the ones I remember), she reckons that because it is so nice there, employers pay less - a sunshine 'dividend' !

Picking up the 3 door TDi tomorrow, will post pictures of it when I've got it home. Fingers and toes crossed!

The government and big business are promoting electric vehicles, look at the savings you get if leasing one (at the moment), as they did with diesel vehicles.
Yes petrol/Diesel does cost to extract, same as gas and coal to run power stations.
We as a country can't support all these vehicles humming around, as above.

We were at the M40 services, junction 2 today. There was a queue of these waiting for a plug, we stopped for 45 minutes, waiting for some mate's in our petrol sports cars. A couple were still waiting to plug in all, that time. Not so clever.
Bet they hadn't planned for an hour plus wait, with their little green badge. Lol.

Drove past this today; new electric only ultra-rapid charge filling station in Manchester , pasty and a brew whilst you recharge your car.

https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/mfg-...cle-charging-station-at-manchester-forecourt/

Interceptorxj said:

Drove past this today; new electric only ultra-rapid charge filling station in Manchester , pasty and a brew whilst you recharge your car.

https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/mfg-...cle-charging-station-at-manchester-forecourt/

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Are the jet wash hoses long enough to reach the nearest bay? you could wash & charge at the same time.

J

Except if all the bays are full, at 150kw, then the microwave in the shop will cut out and won’t heat yr pie

KiwiTDI said:

Except if all the bays are full, at 150kw, then the microwave in the shop will cut out and won’t heat yr pie

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You'll find that these high power chargers have there own independent supply from the local sub-station, so it won't effect premises nearby.

Note car in prime position is a Tesla

Only if the sub station, and the whatever it is called station behind that and all the wires can take the extra load

In NZ we will probably just run an extension cord from the nearest hot point to the charging station

TheQ said:

I'm expecting my landy to out last me in use, that's another thirty years.
Note, there are not yet any real plans to get rid of diesel lorry's . That's pie in the sky as far as battery technology at the moment. Ideas for powered roads either overhead or under road are just ridiculous , the cost and disruption is just too big.
Our next car is likely to be a diesel, bought in a couple of years. Battery tech still doesn't do what we need.
People are likely to cling onto their last ICE car once new ones are not available, with electrics being vastly more expensive than petrol, the numbers who can afford a new car will reduce.

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They are a lifetime away from batteries for trucks, there have been a few attempts, none have fared well.
I think buying diesel cars is still safe, only caveat is, it must be Euro6 spec.