D

Der H

Member
Hi there,

I’m new to the forum and have already encountered a problem - the internet and the forum search have raised possibilities but will consult the knowledge based here for advice!

In short, my ‘88 110 2.5NA is chewing through coolant, temperature 3/4 at lodge once warm, and threatens overheat on the temperature readout with load. The engine smells and runs fine, but I haven’t pushed her more then round the block at 20-30 since!

Things I have checked:
- Air blower cold
- Tried a refill with bleeding techniques online but seem to develop an airlock pretty quickly.
- Small amount of white smoke at startup, clears in 1-2 seconds and doesn’t occur whilst driving
- Runs well, pulls and doesn’t lose power
- Oil level exactly on the ‘N’ despite slow oil leak
- Oil is black, no emulsion on the stick or under the filler cap
- coolant pipes firm when running, not hard
- coolant tank occasional bubbles and level swells (if cap is off) when revving
- after a fill to mid way on the expansion tank it tends to overflow with the cap on but then sits at a reasonable level
- I did hear a hiss from the filler cap/overflow line today after I’d idled the engine to warm (sits at 3/4 mark on temp gauge) occluding end of the line produced a hiss at or around the cap
- after one of these episodes, once cooled, the coolant is WAY low. 2-3 litres low. Can occur on very short journeys.
- no leaks in engine bay visible
- fairy/water spray over all pipes/connections and no bubbles
- pipes are often all dry on outside after and run.
- radiator feels temperate, not warm, when getting back from one of these runs - felt from the inside of the engine bay.

Is this:
A) filler cap/tank - simply letting out steam/ system not pressurising so rapidly loses volume and temp rises
B) thermostat - is it stuck so not filling radiator - high temp and evaporation
C) other leak in coolant system - not sure I can find one!
D) head gasket - runs well and no emulsion but could it be either i) consuming coolant ii) blowing air into the system.

Answers on a postcard!

Cheers, Der H
 
Pressure test the cold system using a pump & look for leaks.
If you haven't replaced the pressure cap it's usually a good idea - done a couple on other cars.
Mayo in the oil filler cap can be condensation & is often worse in cold weather & on cars used for short trips but it isn't the surefire sign that of hgf that many believe.
It's possible that a hg leak can pass straight into the cylinder & out the exhaust as steam. Had that on a Scimitar V6 years ago - nothing in the oil. Often spotted as one -or more - cylinders looking as though they've been steam cleaned.
Stat could be a possibility. I've only had them fail open causing overcooling but one stuck shut/nearly shut is going to severely restrict cooling.
 
If you're losing water and there's no obvious external water leaks a head gasket fault is suggested as you have spotted. The overheating is another matter - these engines don't usually run too hot. Take the thermostat out to check if it is operating in a pot of hot water, if it is your radiator may be blocked. If the thermostat is opening, the top hose will become very hot when the engine is warmed up, you will be able to put your hand on it - but not keep it on for too long. A cheap IR thermometer (from screwfix for example) will tell you more accurately how hot the engine is getting.
 
Der H said:
Hi there,

I’m new to the forum and have already encountered a problem - the internet and the forum search have raised possibilities but will consult the knowledge based here for advice!

In short, my ‘88 110 2.5NA is chewing through coolant, temperature 3/4 at lodge once warm, and threatens overheat on the temperature readout with load. The engine smells and runs fine, but I haven’t pushed her more then round the block at 20-30 since!

Things I have checked:
- Air blower cold
- Tried a refill with bleeding techniques online but seem to develop an airlock pretty quickly.
- Small amount of white smoke at startup, clears in 1-2 seconds and doesn’t occur whilst driving
- Runs well, pulls and doesn’t lose power
- Oil level exactly on the ‘N’ despite slow oil leak
- Oil is black, no emulsion on the stick or under the filler cap
- coolant pipes firm when running, not hard
- coolant tank occasional bubbles and level swells (if cap is off) when revving
- after a fill to mid way on the expansion tank it tends to overflow with the cap on but then sits at a reasonable level
- I did hear a hiss from the filler cap/overflow line today after I’d idled the engine to warm (sits at 3/4 mark on temp gauge) occluding end of the line produced a hiss at or around the cap
- after one of these episodes, once cooled, the coolant is WAY low. 2-3 litres low. Can occur on very short journeys.
- no leaks in engine bay visible
- fairy/water spray over all pipes/connections and no bubbles
- pipes are often all dry on outside after and run.
- radiator feels temperate, not warm, when getting back from one of these runs - felt from the inside of the engine bay.

Is this:
A) filler cap/tank - simply letting out steam/ system not pressurising so rapidly loses volume and temp rises
B) thermostat - is it stuck so not filling radiator - high temp and evaporation
C) other leak in coolant system - not sure I can find one!
D) head gasket - runs well and no emulsion but could it be either i) consuming coolant ii) blowing air into the system.

Answers on a postcard!

Cheers, Der H
Click to expand...

I would look at the heater matrix, and the box that it is in. Sometimes the matrix leaks and the water evaporates. If the air is cold, it could be that the foam inside the box has disintegrated as well.
Head gasket failure in those engines rarely results in coolant loss. Most times it will blow hot gas into the pushrod tubes.

Coolant systems can be awkward to bleed, make sure you have bled the rad itself, and try removing the thermostat, see if it runs cool like that.

And the IR thermometer pens are very good for diagnosis, as above^^^^^^^^^^^.
 
If you're losing 2-3 litres on a short journey there should be some signs. Look closely around the heater box and all the hoses when up to temp and with the engine running. Have a look at the end of the expansion tank overflow pipe - any sign of water coming out? - it will leave a mark on the inner wing. Carefully/slowly remove the expansion tank cap and get someone to rev the engine while you look in - a stream of bubbles which increases when revved points to a head gasket. Mine was being pressurised so much that it was blowing water out the overflow pipe and emptying the expansion tank. These are tough old engines and pretty simple, you'll sort it out.
 
Hi again all,

So it’s been a few weeks - busy at work!
Basically I’ve done a head gasket replacement. Reassembled everything as despite trying everything imaginable I can’t get the landy to fire.

Bless the fuel system several times, diesel from the filter top, the injector pipes and everything.

Tried with rocker off and all valves moving so the starter is turning the engine but just won’t fire.

Any advice?
 
Der H said:
Hi again all,

So it’s been a few weeks - busy at work!
Basically I’ve done a head gasket replacement. Reassembled everything as despite trying everything imaginable I can’t get the landy to fire.

Bless the fuel system several times, diesel from the filter top, the injector pipes and everything.

Tried with rocker off and all valves moving so the starter is turning the engine but just won’t fire.

Any advice?
Click to expand...

Are you sure the belt timing on the cam and the fuel pump is right?

Is there any smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe as you crank over?

And do you think you have working glow plugs, and sufficient cranking speed?
 
Turboman said:
Are you sure the belt timing on the cam and the fuel pump is right?

Is there any smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe as you crank over?

And do you think you have working glow plugs, and sufficient cranking speed?
Click to expand...

I’ve not touched the timing belt so I hope so! Other thank taking the front off is there a way to check?

No smoke during cranking.

Glow plugs...who knows! Is there a way to test them?
 
Der H said:
I’ve not touched the timing belt so I hope so! Other thank taking the front off is there a way to check?

No smoke during cranking.

Glow plugs...who knows! Is there a way to test them?
Click to expand...

Timing belt should be fine if it hasn't been disturbed.

Is the stop solenoid wire connected, and the solenoid allowing fuel through?

Test for current to the plugs, and if it is present, remove the plugs and test them visually, be careful, they get very hot.
 
Turboman said:
Timing belt should be fine if it hasn't been disturbed.

Is the stop solenoid wire connected, and the solenoid allowing fuel through?

Test for current to the plugs, and if it is present, remove the plugs and test them visually, be careful, they get very hot.
Click to expand...

SOlenoid wise, all I know is that when I crank the engine I can get fuel to leak from the metal injector pipes - I presume this means the solenoids is working.

I haven’t managed to get te lift pump level go stiff (as it were!) when manually pumping...does that help at all?
 
Der H said:
SOlenoid wise, all I know is that when I crank the engine I can get fuel to leak from the metal injector pipes - I presume this means the solenoids is working.

I haven’t managed to get te lift pump level go stiff (as it were!) when manually pumping...does that help at all?
Click to expand...

Apologies, you did say before that there was fuel at the injectors, which would rule out the solenoid.

I wouldn't expect the lift pump to go stiff, but it is important that the lift pump is not on the cam, or you will not be able to bleed manually. If you are getting good fule flow at the filter and injection pump, no bubbles, the lift pump is probably OK.

I can only think the glow plugs are an issue, but I can't really see why you aren't getting an smoke from the exhaust, even without plugs I would expect some firing.

The only other thing might be battery condition, these are simple engines, if you have fuel, air, and adequate cranking speed, it should start.

I assume you have checked the valve clearances since the HG change, they can affect starting as well?
 
Turboman said:
Apologies, you did say before that there was fuel at the injectors, which would rule out the solenoid.

I wouldn't expect the lift pump to go stiff, but it is important that the lift pump is not on the cam, or you will not be able to bleed manually. If you are getting good fule flow at the filter and injection pump, no bubbles, the lift pump is probably OK.

I can only think the glow plugs are an issue, but I can't really see why you aren't getting an smoke from the exhaust, even without plugs I would expect some firing.

The only other thing might be battery condition, these are simple engines, if you have fuel, air, and adequate cranking speed, it should start.

I assume you have checked the valve clearances since the HG change, they can affect starting as well?
Click to expand...

Battery isn’t new too.

I did check clearances but will check again. Similarly I’ll check the glow plugs if I’m still having bother.

I have just noticed a few drops of fuel from the rear most glow plug (where the wire connects) so maybe that’s loose/the problem.

I’ve even rechecked the head bolts and they’re all tight down....can’t work it out. I know they say they’re hard to start after HG jobs but lord this is a pain!
 
Der H said:
Battery isn’t new too.

I did check clearances but will check again. Similarly I’ll check the glow plugs if I’m still having bother.

I have just noticed a few drops of fuel from the rear most glow plug (where the wire connects) so maybe that’s loose/the problem.

I’ve even rechecked the head bolts and they’re all tight down....can’t work it out. I know they say they’re hard to start after HG jobs but lord this is a pain!
Click to expand...

There should not be any fuel, or liquid of any sort, coming from the glow plugs, at least one will be knackered, and none of them may be working, if that is the case.

You need the right size of battery, and it needs to be in perfect condition, to get enough cranking speed for these engines to start.

I have started countless old indirect injectors, and when in doubt, we used to take a simple approach. We used to attach the vehicle to the back of a tractor with a chain, and tow them up the lane in high range second. They always start after a few hundred yards.
 
So I’m not entirely convinced that it sounds like the engine is turning over. Crank speed is high, rockers are definitely moving as is the fan, no smoke, and fuel is flowing freely.

Could this be the valve clearances are wrong I.e. never generating compression?
 
Der H said:
So I’m not entirely convinced that it sounds like the engine is turning over. Crank speed is high, rockers are definitely moving as is the fan, no smoke, and fuel is flowing freely.

Could this be the valve clearances are wrong I.e. never generating compression?
Click to expand...

What are the clearances?
 
I don't suppose there could be any strategically placed wrags still in the air intake anywhere from when you lifted the head?
 
Turboman said:
What are the clearances?
Click to expand...

In short...wrong!

Land Raver said:
I don't suppose there could be any strategically placed wrags still in the air intake anywhere from when you lifted the head?
Click to expand...

Thankfully no!

So it turns out it was clearances...rather than being 0.25mm they were in the region of 3mm too tight! They'd been done when I first put the head back on and appear to have left a washer between the block and the gasket = stupid mistake!
New gasket, re-seated head and re-did the clearances and she started first time!
Runs beautifully and no more leaking!

Thanks everyone for your help!
 
Der H said:
In short...wrong!



Thankfully no!

So it turns out it was clearances...rather than being 0.25mm they were in the region of 3mm too tight! They'd been done when I first put the head back on and appear to have left a washer between the block and the gasket = stupid mistake!
New gasket, re-seated head and re-did the clearances and she started first time!
Runs beautifully and no more leaking!

Thanks everyone for your help!
Click to expand...

Good that you got it sorted, and thanks for coming back to tell us what happened. :)
 
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