kes86

kes86

Active Member
Hi, sorry I have not been on here much lately, I have a VW bay window camper which has taken over as most unreliable vehicle in the fleet, so I have been hanging about VW forums.

The prices of LED headlights for Defenders has come down to silly levels on EBay. The non halo ones I prefer are at £60 a pair.

Item number 173514509873but they are from China.

Anyone got any experiances good or bad, so I can add them to my Christmas list, or not as the case may be.

Cheers
 
And designed for driving on the left! A lot of the Chinese stuff will be built for countries driving on the right so not suitable for the UK.
 
Another cheap nasty illegal headlights from China.

No approval markings on them so illegal.

Certification according to blurb is DOT. Ooops that is wrong side of the road.

Low beam 2250 lumens, well if that is correct you will need a wash system installed

No IP rating

Delivery via airmail 15-20 days. What are they using? Pigeon post?

VAT is payable on imported goods from outside EU over £15. Then you might get hit with handling charges.


Brendan
 
I honestly don't understand what's wrong with a decent set of halogens. Enough light to see where you're going on low beam (the beam pattern is well-defined so none will light any further down the road) and acceptable on high beam. Add a long-range spotlamp or two and all is good.
 
I have a decent set of crystal halogens, just thinking of an upgrade if this is one.
 
I tried to quote leeds post, missed how the function works on here and now can't edit it to add it.

The listing says E Marked and for RHD vehicles? MOT regs and Construction and Use makes no mention of E markings or otherwise to be 'legal', at least they didn't in the past, that may have changed. If you're on about 'legality' product testing then it's possibly not mandatory for these. If you're importing parts from a foreign manufacturer personally, or not selling parts where CE certification is mandatory, then the products don't need CE markings. The only time it is an issue is during vehicle type approval and unless the OP is building his own car then it's unlikely to be an issue.

Being anti Chinese parts these days is pointless. These parts are likely better than anything any British company could manufacture or source. Look at Britpart, are you going to pay £350 for their LED lights?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking#products-that-need-ce-marking
https://www.chinaimportal.com/blog/ce-marking-importing-china-complete-guide/
 
The law is quite clear.

Vehicle Lighting Regulations clearly state that obligatory vehicle lights need an APPROVAL mark

Approval marks are under the Designation of Approval Marks Act which says anything approved under the UNECE regulations is legal in the UK

The Road Traffic Act states it is an offence to supply, fit or use a defective item on a motor vehicle.

Construction and Use regulations does not mention vehicle lighting so in this context is irrelevant.

CE stands for European Conformity which basically means that the product is free of harmful substances such as arsenic/lead etc so not really applicable to LED headlights.

E marked? E + number in a circle is a country code. It is NOT an approval mark.

DOT/DOT approved = Department of Transport (USA)/Department of Transport does NOT approve anything as it is a regulatory body not an approval body. DOT regulations are not applicable in the UK it is a USA/North and Central America regulations. Some of the DOT regulations may or may not be compatible with European regulations.

Vehicle lighting Regulations can be found here schedule 4 and 5 apply to headlights

UNECE regulation 48 is a summary of vehicle lighting regulations and gives a broad outline to all vehicle obligatory lights and references the applicable regulations for individual lights such as R112 for headlights R 23 for reversing lights, R 10 for electromagnetic compatibility etc. UNECE stands for United Commission Economic Commission for Europe and is the basis for vehicle harmonisation regulations in Europe

As for the MOT it is a basic safety check and does not check the legality of the lights but on their functionality. The EU annual roadworthiness test is a directive (so not legally binding) says the lights markings should be checked for compliance but this word was missed out on the latest MOT which come into force this year. EU directive here section 4.1.4 compare that with the MOT section 4.1.4

Most if not all cheap LED headlights are not approved for use in the UK as they do not have the correct approval markings on. If headlights are marked DOT, SAE E + number in a circle then no matter what any trader says they are not road legal in the UK.

Now it is quite feasible to fit illegal lights and get away with it, just like it is possible to get away with breaking the speed limit/drink driving etc. There again you run the risk of getting caught.

Now your motor insurance policy will require you to declare any modifications to your vehicle. Now your motor insurance policy will require you to keep your motor vehicle road legal etc. Try telling your motor insurance company that you have carried out an illegal modification to your vehicle and see what they say in the event of a claim!


Brendan
 
Last edited:
Actually I was wrong on the CE testing, sorry. You are right about the UNECE regs.

As far as I knew there are no rules governing lights so long as they would pass an MOT on an existing vehicle, and would only be a problem when submitting a vehicle for approval such as a kit car. It's Schedule 2 that says about marks being mandatory and on vehicles after 1972, or 1986 for bikes. I guess you could use them on a vehicle built before 1972 and angled as required in the regulations, which also wouldn't fail an MOT as it's not required to have one, yet it's so tenuous I'll give you that one.
 
Last edited:
MrHappy80, please read section 5 of Schedule 4 part 1 of the VLR.

It clearly states that obligatory and optional headlights need an approval mark or a British Stamdard Mark (the old kite Mark system) on vehicles manufactured since 1986.

No ifs, no buts.

Now if you look at the headlights fitted by Land Rover to Defenders etc from 1986 they have used Wipac and they carry an approval mark as set out in UNECE Regulations. In the last editions of Defenders they fitted Nolden BiLed headlights which carry an approval mark as set out in UNECE regulations.

Why would they bother fitting headlights with approval marks if they had no legal obligation to do so?

If you look closely at the other obligatory vehicle lights such as indicators, fog lights etc on a Defender you will find approval marks.

If you look at the vehicle glazing on any modern vehicle you will find an approval mark which will have 43R on it which is the UNECE regulation for vehicle safety glass!

If you look at tyres you will find approval markings on them according to UNECE Regulations..

The UNECE Regulations are the vehicle harmonisation system so that a vehicle or vehicle part approved by one signatory country is legal in all the other signatory countries.

Br3ndan
 
To be fair, I think you should look less at the rules and regulations, and more at the performance of the lights.

I purchased a set of these 'cheap' Chinese lights about 3 years ago, and had them fitted by a friendly mechanic with beam alignment equipment in his workshop. The results were appalling. The lamps produced just a 'splodge' of light, aimed centrally, with no discernible beam pattern. This made reading road signs difficult, and didn't pick up the distinction between kerb and nearside edge of the road. On his recommendation they were returned to the vendor (who didn't really want to give me a refund). They were rubbish.

A set of J W Speaker 8700's were purchased, at vast expense. The difference, however is amazing. The beam is crisp and directional, and the beam colour is fabulous. The definition and direction of the beam makes driving on dipped beam a doddle, and full beam is amazing. I have no need for light bars or auxiliary lighting on my truck, as the performance of the J W Speaker's is so good.

You really do get what you pay for, in this world.
 
kes86 said:
I have a decent set of crystal halogens, just thinking of an upgrade if this is one.
Click to expand...
That's what I did,
A set of crystal lenses, a pair of good quality halogens, that's all you need.

I'd probably go for the up graded wiring loom but the previous owner. Did something strange to the loom, I have to find the energy to sort that first.
 
Brendan,
They come with an approval mark - all be it an illegal one. They have fake stickers and marks on everything you buy like that - electrical items are CE marked - but that's fake as well.

So - although you are totally correct - the MOT man or anyone else won't actually know.... And as a buyer of course you have checked it has a mark and therefore you're in the clear on a technicality...


leeds said:
The law is quite clear.

Vehicle Lighting Regulations clearly state that obligatory vehicle lights need an APPROVAL mark

Approval marks are under the Designation of Approval Marks Act which says anything approved under the UNECE regulations is legal in the UK

The Road Traffic Act states it is an offence to supply, fit or use a defective item on a motor vehicle.

Construction and Use regulations does not mention vehicle lighting so in this context is irrelevant.

CE stands for European Conformity which basically means that the product is free of harmful substances such as arsenic/lead etc so not really applicable to LED headlights.

E marked? E + number in a circle is a country code. It is NOT an approval mark.

DOT/DOT approved = Department of Transport (USA)/Department of Transport does NOT approve anything as it is a regulatory body not an approval body. DOT regulations are not applicable in the UK it is a USA/North and Central America regulations. Some of the DOT regulations may or may not be compatible with European regulations.

Vehicle lighting Regulations can be found here schedule 4 and 5 apply to headlights

UNECE regulation 48 is a summary of vehicle lighting regulations and gives a broad outline to all vehicle obligatory lights and references the applicable regulations for individual lights such as R112 for headlights R 23 for reversing lights, R 10 for electromagnetic compatibility etc. UNECE stands for United Commission Economic Commission for Europe and is the basis for vehicle harmonisation regulations in Europe

As for the MOT it is a basic safety check and does not check the legality of the lights but on their functionality. The EU annual roadworthiness test is a directive (so not legally binding) says the lights markings should be checked for compliance but this word was missed out on the latest MOT which come into force this year. EU directive here section 4.1.4 compare that with the MOT section 4.1.4

Most if not all cheap LED headlights are not approved for use in the UK as they do not have the correct approval markings on. If headlights are marked DOT, SAE E + number in a circle then no matter what any trader says they are not road legal in the UK.

Now it is quite feasible to fit illegal lights and get away with it, just like it is possible to get away with breaking the speed limit/drink driving etc. There again you run the risk of getting caught.

Now your motor insurance policy will require you to declare any modifications to your vehicle. Now your motor insurance policy will require you to keep your motor vehicle road legal etc. Try telling your motor insurance company that you have carried out an illegal modification to your vehicle and see what they say in the event of a claim!


Brendan
Click to expand...
 
I bought some Chinese eBay specials for my VW Beetle (2002 - its old and crap but has a 250bhp turbo engine in it) and yes - the lights are average. The beam is ok - but they don't quite line up, they don't contain the adjuster motor and I cant re-aim them now they are in the car. The pool of light is a bit rubbish but with some better bulbs they work just fine.

So - a quality item they are not, but they do the job and were a good replacement on the cheap. They have all the relevant marks for approval and CE and my MOT man was happy with them after I leant on them to pass the aim test!

I won't be putting them on my Landy - Ill buy expensive decent quality ones...
 
TheQ said:
That's what I did,
A set of crystal lenses, a pair of good quality halogens, that's all you need.

I'd probably go for the up graded wiring loom but the previous owner. Did something strange to the loom, I have to find the energy to sort that first.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the best plan. I have an led light bar, so the headlights are just for dipped beam really. I’ll check the wiring and upgrade it if needed.
 
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