I know this has been done before and I am not wishing for a huge debate on the legalities or aesthetics of LED headlights. I am just looking for some advice on which model to buy and install. My understanding is that as long as you replace the whole unit rather than just the bulbs you are ok from and MOT perspective, and I am aware of the issues in cold weather and snow with not producing enough heat to clear the lens, I do not live off the top of Scotland or in Scandinavia so it should not be an issue.

My reasons for wanting LED headlights are to reduce the load on the wiring circuit, I have replaced other lights with LEDs as part of my rebuild (link) after the engine fire caused by electrical fault. I am aware of the boomslang harness but having ordered one before the fire to fit I found it poorly made, and not well though through in terms of the positioning of things. I did begin to modify it for improvement but gave up as it was going to cost more to modify than to start from scratch. I currently have brand new wiring looms throughout as part of the rebuild so this is not a “my headlights are dim” type thread because the writing is in poor condition and 30 years old.

I was looking at these: LINK
I am not a fan of the aesthetic but most LED headlights seem to be the same so I have resigned myself to the fact that to have LED’s I will loose the “traditional” look of the front end. One thing I do draw the line at is the halo lights that are around however.

Although they are a lot more expensive the truck-lite LEDs seem to get a very good write up and although different when in use do give a more traditional appearance when not in use. They look to be very well made and reliable. I was looking at these ones from Masai: LINK which seem to be the latest generation. Are they actually worth the money?

Does anyone have an experience with either of these models linked above or recommendations for other good quality LED options?
Within reason price is not what I am looking at, I would rather pay for a proper well made unit that is legal than get some £50 Chinese eBay special.

I have Nolden's (the type fitted my LR) and they are fine although possibly not worth the cost on the £ per light-output scale. They do however retain more of the traditional look than some others.
You are just up the road from me (Banbury), if you wanted to see them at night before parting with your money I am more than willing for you to take a look.

We have a rack of shelves at work full of truck-lite led lamps, all for the warranty replacements we do, and we do a lot, but Iirc they are lifetime warranty?

What age is your vehicle?

To make them legal they would need a real E mark (many are fake). Washer and some sort of self levelling. Pre 1986 vehicles can use LED bulbs however. So this may extend to replacement lamps without the need of the other parts. But you’d need to check.

Issues with most LED lamps are poor CRI (colour rendition index). They are usually 6500-7000+ kelvin. And will bleach colours and make things look kinda grey.

Almost all of these lamps produce horrible glare for oncoming traffic. I suspect because most are not actually legal or built to spec. But 95% of them are for left hand drive markers driving on the right. Very few genuine rhd (drive on the left) lamp units are made or offered.

Along with poor lighting and blinding on coming traffic. The style you link to scream pull me over or fail the MoT as they are so blatantly obvious. I also would say the IMHO they don’t suit a Defenders styling.

If you do go for full lamps. I’d try and get some that look a lot nicer and ones that don’t blind people. Which means someone who has tested them. Or buy and try and send back if no good.

Other options would be to buy a good quality halogen lamp housing and some led bulbs. You can even get them in warmer kelvin ratings too. And as said pre 1986 is 100% legal.

I’m all for LED lights. Although a good halogen setup can still work well and there are many options. But I’m not for blinding on coming drivers. As I hate it happening to me. Poor CRI can also induce more eye strain on longer journeys.

It really is a minefield. Expensive is by no means a sign of quality either. Although I’d guess almost all of the cheap ones are completely unfit for U.K. roads.

The other option would be some HID bulbs in a halogen housing. Still a bit of a minefield as there are some dodgy sellers. But HiDs are a lot cheaper. 4300-5300k is what you want and as a rule they will give nicer light than almost any LED.

Oh and don’t believe crazy lumen claims. 200% of the claims are normally bogus and made up and often physically impossible. The Masai ones say 1300 lumens each. You might want to check out what something such as an Osram Nightbreaker halogen bulb puts out. Biggest thing is the amp draw is much lower with LED.

There are brighter LED lamps and ultimately they will win out against halogen in terms of output. But it depends on the exact setups.

300bhp/ton said:

Oh and don’t believe crazy lumen claims. 200% of the claims are normally bogus and made up and often physically impossible. The Masai ones say 1300 lumens each. You might want to check out what something such as an Osram Nightbreaker halogen bulb puts out. Biggest thing is the amp draw is much lower with LED.

There are brighter LED lamps and ultimately they will win out against halogen in terms of output. But it depends on the exact setups.

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I am not doing this to get brighter headlights, I am doing it to reduce the amp draw as you have mentioned. the osram night breaker laser (link) has Luminous flux 1650/1000lm so the LED ones are possible slightly brighter (1300lm vs 1000lm) but that is not my aim. This is also the reason I am not looking at HID, IF i was not going for LED I would stick to the standard headlight setup with a pair of night breakers as I had before. I goal is to "unload" as much of the electrical system as possible, possibly needlessly, due to the electrical start of the fire I am rebuilding from. It has made me a little paranoid about it so I am doing everything possible to prevent it happening again.

300bhp/ton said:

What age is your vehicle?

To make them legal they would need a real E mark (many are fake). Washer and some sort of self levelling. Pre 1986 vehicles can use LED bulbs however. So this may extend to replacement lamps without the need of the other parts. But you’d need to check.

Issues with most LED lamps are poor CRI (colour rendition index). They are usually 6500-7000+ kelvin. And will bleach colours and make things look kinda grey.

Almost all of these lamps produce horrible glare for oncoming traffic. I suspect because most are not actually legal or built to spec. But 95% of them are for left hand drive markers driving on the right. Very few genuine rhd (drive on the left) lamp units are made or offered.

Along with poor lighting and blinding on coming traffic. The style you link to scream pull me over or fail the MoT as they are so blatantly obvious. I also would say the IMHO they don’t suit a Defenders styling.

If you do go for full lamps. I’d try and get some that look a lot nicer and ones that don’t blind people. Which means someone who has tested them. Or buy and try and send back if no good.

Other options would be to buy a good quality halogen lamp housing and some led bulbs. You can even get them in warmer kelvin ratings too. And as said pre 1986 is 100% legal.

I’m all for LED lights. Although a good halogen setup can still work well and there are many options. But I’m not for blinding on coming drivers. As I hate it happening to me. Poor CRI can also induce more eye strain on longer journeys.

It really is a minefield. Expensive is by no means a sign of quality either. Although I’d guess almost all of the cheap ones are completely unfit for U.K. roads.

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This was covered recently in a thread which is where I got the information that you can replace the whole unit but not just fit bulbs. (mine is 1989). I will try and find it again and link it here.

I also completely agree with you that the styling is usually terrible, that is why I definitely do not want halos, and am looking at the truck-lites. I will also look into the ones @Litch has as again they look far more subtle a unit that the most. I know most of the cheap ones have the issues you have listed above and may not even be RHD units which is why I have resigned myself to having to pay proper money for some so I can get it right an not blind oncoming traffic or have too high a Kelvin rating.

EDIT: link I see you commented on that thread as well.

lynall said:

We have a rack of shelves at work full of truck-lite led lamps, all for the warranty replacements we do, and we do a lot, but Iirc they are lifetime warranty?

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What do you mean by a lot of warranty replacements? Some units come with a lifetime warranty but the ones I am looking at from massai are three years. For the price though I would be wanting them to last a lot longer than three years hence asking a little more about your comment!

@dag019 , I have Wipac Crystal lenses with Osram Nightbreaker H4 bulbs. As a headlamp set up they provide first rate lighting in all conditions. For the side light, indicator, rear/brake light and fog lights I use Better Car Lighting's very high quality LED bulbs. I can really recommend BCL and the man behind their design/the company, Gil Keene. BCL also design/sell H4 LED bulbs that I'm sure will be of equal quality. They even offer a complete Land Rover kit, see here https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=833

When you see/feel BCL's LED you'll see the quality of design and build put into these units/their LED ranges, they are superb giving clear bright light with market leading longevity. At the same time they fully retain the Land Rover aesthetic. I have BCL LED's on all my classic cars with a mixture of original and new wiring with the headlamps being fed by separate cct relays.

It would be worth talking with BCL/Gil Keene https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=16

Here, their full Land Rover range https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?page=0&act=viewCat&catId=61

Here, their full 40page Classic Car Range https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=48

+ they provide an out of box side indicator residual drain resistor unit - mine sits happily behind the dashboard https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=700

v8250 said:

@dag019 , I have Wipac Crystal lenses with Osram Nightbreaker H4 bulbs. As a headlamp set up they provide first rate lighting in all conditions.

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That is what I had before but as I said I am looking to reduce ampage through the wiring so I am looking for LED for this reason rather than traditional lights.

I have RDX full unit rear brake and front side lights, with bearmach LED fog lights (I have the old rectangular units). I have not yet looked into the indicators and currently have traditional units and bulbs. I will certainly look into BCL bulbs for them as I know from the number of threads I see on here that led indicators are not a straight forward swap out.

dag019 said:

What do you mean by a lot of warranty replacements? Some units come with a lifetime warranty but the ones I am looking at from massai are three years. For the price though I would be wanting them to last a lot longer than three years hence asking a little more about your comment!

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What I mean is we change lots of truck lite lamps under warranty (hence the shelves of lamps) we have somewhere around 200 trailers and at least 1/2 of them are on truck lite lamps, the small side lamps tend to rot out the connectors, and the rear main lamps fail due to water ingress even though they are sealed units, some are due to obvious damage and many are just unexplained.
Personally I would not go there.

dag019 said:

That is what I had before but as I said I am looking to reduce ampage through the wiring so I am looking for LED for this reason rather than traditional lights.

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If this helps, the best way to reduce current load in the headlamp ccts is to install 2x relays, one for each side. This removing the mid-long term switch loads and regular failure at the headlamp switch c/o load arcing + reducing the current load significantly reduces cable temps at main/full beam. I made the mistake of buying a Boomslang headlamp loom - it's caused me a few issues [and others too] and I should have just installed 2x separate relays rather than their primary/slave piggy-back relay layout. I will change this at some stage in the future. I guess my note here is that expensive LED headlight kits are just this, expensive. Whereas carefully selected LED bulbs + correct quality headlamp units with good relayed wiring gives superb lighting, tiny current draw through the wiring and easy fault finding should there be a future issue, i.e. switch to separate LH/RH feed cable, 2x relays, 2x LED's, 2x earths

The Boomslang looms are rubbish, however there are better quality options that will solve your current draw issue. I have one from a company called Landreizger in Holland. It was about £40 if I remember correctly, though that was pre-brexit. Fit and forget

Litch said:

I have Nolden's (the type fitted my LR) and they are fine although possibly not worth the cost on the £ per light-output scale. They do however retain more of the traditional look than some others.
You are just up the road from me (Banbury), if you wanted to see them at night before parting with your money I am more than willing for you to take a look.

View attachment 282909

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Just had a look at these, is this what you have: link

I cannot seem to find a set without the DLR element which it doesn't look like you have in you photo. They also look even more expensive than the Turck-lite ones?

v8250 said:

If this helps, the best way to reduce current load in the headlamp ccts is to install 2x relays, one for each side. This removing the mid-long term switch loads and regular failure at the headlamp switch c/o load arcing + reducing the current load significantly reduces cable temps at main/full beam. I made the mistake of buying a Boomslang headlamp loom - it's caused me a few issues [and others too] and I should have just installed 2x separate relays rather than their primary/slave piggy-back relay layout. I will change this at some stage in the future. I guess my note here is that expensive LED headlight kits are just this, expensive. Whereas carefully selected LED bulbs + correct quality headlamp units with good relayed wiring gives superb lighting, tiny current draw through the wiring and easy fault finding should there be a future issue, i.e. switch to separate LH/RH feed cable, 2x relays, 2x LED's, 2x earths

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+1 on this
its definitely my choice and removes all load from the existing loom. As said above, LEDs in general are often 6500K at a very minimum which is crap for you as a driver and crap for other road users. I'm sure they are very bright though, but that doesn't help you see better

dag019 said:

Just had a look at these, is this what you have: link

I cannot seem to find a set without the DLR element which it doesn't look like you have in you photo. They also look even more expensive than the Turck-lite ones?

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Mine will be first generation as I have had them since Oct 2014.
Hence, no DRL.
And yes, they were (are) expensive.

The MOT issue is clear if you read the MOT manual on the subject.

I recently put the trucklite ones on my wagon and I am frankly, blown away by the upgrade. My old lights had normal bulbs in and passed any MOT, but as part of the recent work, I replaced with the trucklite ones off the back of research here about lights that look relatively “retro” rather than the lens type, had a well defined image pattern and good illumination. And I wanted to make life a bit easier for the old loom too.

I know they’re pricey, but the trucklite ones really did exceed my expectations

for reference
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...s/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...mot-special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions

don't forget, lights must be marked with the relevant regs

300bhp/ton said:

The other option would be some HID bulbs in a halogen housing. Still a bit of a minefield as there are some dodgy sellers. But HiDs are a lot cheaper. 4300-5300k is what you want and as a rule they will give nicer light than almost any LED.

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HID bulb conversions are illegal in UK as are LED conversions. My MOT man, Ian, is a mate and i asked him to look at the actual wording of the new DOT directive as in my opinion fitting a replacement lamp unit which is E Marked and has been designed as an LED light unit from scratch isn't an LED 'conversion' in the sense of the new legislation. The DOT is banning idiots wedging into the existing lamp unit an LED or HID bulb which gives loads of light output but no discernable light pattern so the nut behind the wheel is happy at being able to see EVERYTHING in front of them but may wonder why they now see so many oncoming cars either suddenly stopping or crashing into the scenary at night before their very eyes.
Ian said no. Illegal! Not allowed! Instant MOT failure!
I do wonder if other MOT yesters don't share his point of view given the number of Defenders i see on the road fitted with LED headlight units.