So - a few of me may have seen my previous threads/posts - Ill be the first to admit that Im not a great at fixing cars, particularly when things go wrong (e.g. rusty nuts, other peoples questionable electrical repairs, etc). Im not too bad when it comes to the theory, but then almost anyone can read or watch a video on how to fix a problem, its another thing to actually fix it.
Some context might be useful, Im 21, doing an Open Uni degree in mechanical engineering, and its going to be at least another 3.5 years until I finnish it, but it could be another 5.5 years if I chose to do it more slowly. I was daft enough to waste my time doing A-Levels, so I havnt got any NVQs or BTECs, so doing a collage course to get any recognised qualifications is a bit pointless, because by the time Ive got a level 2 NVQ, I'll have finnished my degree. Similarly, nobody will put me on a course for anything, because they know Im likely to move on in a few years time, once Ive completed the degree.
I need something to do for the next few years, preferably something better than stacking shelves in a supermarket (not that there is anything wrong with that, its just not very interesting/well paid/gainful). Ive got a powerboat license, so getting decent seasonal work isnt too difficult, but thats not ideal because all my mates come back from uni every summer, and Ive got to work, then when summer is over, they all go back to uni and I go back to being unemployed.
I dont mind the idea of being self employed, but I want to be good at it. I'm not one to shy away from hard work, but its either either got to pay decently or be enjoyable, otherwise I become a rather lazy employee. Id very much rather sleep in the back of my car and shower in a gym than work in a job I cant stand. I worked as a labourer on a film set (cant say which one, since I actually read the NDA that I signed) and some of the people I was working with though I was a bit mad, because I was determined to outwork everyone else, since the better you were, the more shifts you got, and it was a fun job that paid well.
So, where can I learn to fix Land Rovers? In case you are wondering, "why Land Rovers?" Well, specifying in one vehicle type means buying fewer tools, and getting good at that specific vehicle more quickly. Also, Land Rovers are popular enough and unreliable/high-maintainance enough that there hopefully wont be a shortage of work. Ive seen a few courses aimed at people who want to prepare and fix their vehicles for/on expeditions. and Ive read some people suggesting to join the army, but that's certainly not for me. Any other ideas? I hope you can appreciate that "buy one and teach yourself" isnt great advice in this situation, I need to learn properly, and quite quickly.
If, by any chance, anyone reading this happens to run a a business fixing old Land Rovers, and would like an apprentice who's enthusiastic, eager to learn and willing to work for cheap, but currently rather unskilled and inexperienced, please do get in touch!

LetsHopeItFits said:

So - a few of me may have seen my previous threads/posts - Ill be the first to admit that Im not a great at fixing cars, particularly when things go wrong (e.g. rusty nuts, other peoples questionable electrical repairs, etc). Im not too bad when it comes to the theory, but then almost anyone can read or watch a video on how to fix a problem, its another thing to actually fix it.
Some context might be useful, Im 21, doing an Open Uni degree in mechanical engineering, and its going to be at least another 3.5 years until I finnish it, but it could be another 5.5 years if I chose to do it more slowly. I was daft enough to waste my time doing A-Levels, so I havnt got any NVQs or BTECs, so doing a collage course to get any recognised qualifications is a bit pointless, because by the time Ive got a level 2 NVQ, I'll have finnished my degree. Similarly, nobody will put me on a course for anything, because they know Im likely to move on in a few years time, once Ive completed the degree.
I need something to do for the next few years, preferably something better than stacking shelves in a supermarket (not that there is anything wrong with that, its just not very interesting/well paid/gainful). Ive got a powerboat license, so getting decent seasonal work isnt too difficult, but thats not ideal because all my mates come back from uni every summer, and Ive got to work, then when summer is over, they all go back to uni and I go back to being unemployed.
I dont mind the idea of being self employed, but I want to be good at it. I'm not one to shy away from hard work, but its either either got to pay decently or be enjoyable, otherwise I become a rather lazy employee. Id very much rather sleep in the back of my car and shower in a gym than work in a job I cant stand. I worked as a labourer on a film set (cant say which one, since I actually read the NDA that I signed) and some of the people I was working with though I was a bit mad, because I was determined to outwork everyone else, since the better you were, the more shifts you got, and it was a fun job that paid well.
So, where can I learn to fix Land Rovers? In case you are wondering, "why Land Rovers?" Well, specifying in one vehicle type means buying fewer tools, and getting good at that specific vehicle more quickly. Also, Land Rovers are popular enough and unreliable/high-maintainance enough that there hopefully wont be a shortage of work. Ive seen a few courses aimed at people who want to prepare and fix their vehicles for/on expeditions. and Ive read some people suggesting to join the army, but that's certainly not for me. Any other ideas? I hope you can appreciate that "buy one and teach yourself" isnt great advice in this situation, I need to learn properly, and quite quickly.
If, by any chance, anyone reading this happens to run a a business fixing old Land Rovers, and would like an apprentice who's enthusiastic, eager to learn and willing to work for cheap, but currently rather unskilled and inexperienced, please do get in touch!

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You might need to state what area you live in.
Also worth looking on Facebook as lots of Land Rover independents seem to be on there showing their latest works.

I used to work part time at a Landy specialist for a “top up” and access to ramps and trade price parts. I had done mech at college but the only real experience I had was on previous cars I’d owned. I soon realised I knew jack **** compared to the qualified techs too and that was reflected in pay.
Not to be rude but fcuk all will pay well at your age whilst your yet to embark on a career. Pay comes with responsibility and experience/qualifications. I doubt much would pay better than Aldi when you haven’t got those but I get wanting to do something you love.
Have you thought about trying to get in with mechanical companies and getting sponsorship for your degree? Manufacture/mechanical companies?

Also, my posts are trying to be helpful so hope I don’t come across patronising - don’t box yourself into a corner and look at something that would benefit you and a career in mech in the future.

Your time doing any education such as A levels was not and will not be wasted. You wouldnt be doing the degree without A levels..... the degree and A levels will cover you for the future, maybe 20 years later...

", I need to learn properly, and quite quickly."

Aint going to happen with a third party I am afraid unless you pay them. It would take any garage longer to do jobs teaching you to do it properly at their cost than they would earn from you working for them. Add to that most garages DONT do things properly, they do it to get the vehicle off their plot and running as quickly as possible. I know a LR specialist who still denies basic differences in drop arms or the basics of testing glow plugs.

You could buy a landrover and learn how to do it properly with workshop manuals/youtube/tutorials. Keep in mind any garage isnt going to do a drop arm in 3 years, or may never touch a clutch, most of what comes in is run of the mill stuff.

Love the enthusiasm, nearly 27 years ago I was in the same boat contracting..... and an older chap said to me.... "you know what your biggest challenge in this job is"...... "What I said", expecting some skill I needed or something I could change. "your age" he said.... simple as that...

lynall said:

You might need to state what area you live in.

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Yes, that might be helpful... North Wales, but willing to move if a very good opportunity were to be offered.

resto_d1 said:

I soon realised I knew jack **** compared to the qualified techs

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Yes, exactly. And Im almost certainly worse at it than you! I used to blame it on a lack of tools (i.e. not having the snazy electric impact guns etc etc) but really the only tool missing was the knowledge/experience in my brain.

resto_d1 said:

Not to be rude but fcuk all will pay well at your age whilst your yet to embark on a career. Pay comes with responsibility and experience/qualifications. I doubt much would pay better than Aldi when you haven’t got those but I get wanting to do something you love.

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Yep, I've noticed... but fixing Land Rovers beats standing in a shop all day. And learning to fix things is a very very valuable skill, whereas opperating a shop till isnt really.
I can learn quite quickly, so Id be more than happy to work for below standard minimum wage (currently £11.44/hr), minimum apprentice wage is £6.40/hr. I appreciate that Id probably be an inconvenience/drain on resources for the first few weeks, but Id hope to be a useful employee as quickly as possible.

resto_d1 said:

Have you thought about trying to get in with mechanical companies and getting sponsorship for your degree? Manufacture/mechanical companies?

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Well, thats not really how its done, as far as I can tell. There are companies that offer MEng degree apprenticeships, I almost got one with Ford a few years ago (Covid A Levels put a stop to that, for reasons Ill explain later, but they needed AAB, I was expecting more like A*A*A, but I got AAC). My degree is "only" £656 per 30 credit module, so its "only" £1312 a year for the first 2 years (limited to 60 credits a year), then I can do it at 60, 90 or 120 credits a year after that, so up to £2632 a year. Significantly less than the £9250 a traditional uni charges.

resto_d1 said:

Also, my posts are trying to be helpful so hope I don’t come across patronising

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No, not at all, your input is much appreciated! I do sort of know my place, I understand that Ive currently got no valuable qualifications or experience, and so getting anything better than floor sweeping or shelf stacking isnt going to be easy. I re-wrote my first post a fair few times, I was worried Id come accross as a bit arrogant and/or conceited, which really isnt the case, I know Id soon be humbled the moment I held a spanner!

ER1C said:

Your time doing any education such as A levels was not and will not be wasted. You wouldnt be doing the degree without A levels.

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Well, the Open Uni course Im on didnt need A Levels, but the stuff I learnt at A Level is making the first few modules a doddle. I had typed out a massive lump of text about how the covid grades really screwed me over, but thats in the past now, Ive got the grades I got, be they a fair representation of my abilities or not. I know that had the exams gone ahead, Id have probably managed 2 A*s, an A and a B, at least. But I was awarded AAC, having effectively been forced to drop A level biology by the teacher giving me a D the year before.
All my mates got a bunch of A*s and got into the top unis they had applied for, I went in through clearing, ended up in Swansea for mech eng, no in person lectures, and the worst possible flatmates. I dropped out before christmas because I wasnt meeting anyone on my course to make friends with, and things werent going too well with my flatmates... I had fought a drug dealer out of the flat at 4am and kicked him down the stairs, thus apparently causing hime to want to stab me. People also called me at all hours asking me for a lift back from the nightclub, because I had a 7 seater (yep, I had a V8 disco in uni). Id block their numbers, they would borrow someone elses phone and call me. I had 9am online lectures most days. The course its self wasnt too bad, there were a few bits I found tricky, but thats to be expected. I spoke to the head of the course, asking when we would be going back to real lectures and where to get help with the CAD (I couldnt do it to save my life) and he just gave me an "it is what it is, figure it out yourself" responce, which really ****ed my off because I was paying way too much money for the experiences and education I was getting.
Then I worked as a teaching assistant for a bit, I was very good at that job, but I had to commute 1.5h each way, and it was only 6h of work, and petrol was stupidly expensive at the time, and I only had my V8 disco. I worked out that after paying for my petrol and a meal deal at lunchtime, I was working for free, so after a few months I stopped. Then I did the film set job, then I went to Aberystwyth uni for a year, to do "Engineering Physics" which was a lie. It wasnt an engineering course, it was a physics course without the option to pick which moduels you wanted to do. I did that for a full year, made some friends, but failed completely to grasp some parts of quantum, and I couldnt stand the weekly labs, so I decided not to carry on, and didnt resit the stuff I failed. Anyway, thats all in the past, Im here now, Im doing the Open Uni degree, its all going well, Im not going to change again. Sometimes I do look back and think that if Id just stuck it out in Swansea, Id be doing my final exams now and it would all be over, but no, Im doing the first year, again. For someone who did so well at GCSEs (actual, real GCSEs before covid) the education system really has let me down.

ER1C said:

Aint going to happen with a third party I am afraid unless you pay them.

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Im not against that idea. If the right sort of thing was avaliable, Id pay for it, if it wasnt outrageously expensive, and didnt take too long. Do you know of any such things?

ER1C said:

It would take any garage longer to do jobs teaching you to do it properly at their cost than they would earn from you working for them

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Very true, but then this is the case for almost any hands on technical skill, but last I checked, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, builders, etc etc dont grow in fields, they all learn that stuff somewhere. Granted, most learn in collage (usually paid for by the government, I think?) whilst the other half of the people their age pickle their livers in uni, gathering the best part of £100,000 in debt at 7% interest.

ER1C said:

Add to that most garages DONT do things properly, they do it to get the vehicle off their plot and running as quickly as possible

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Again, very, very true. The biggest hurdle for me isnt the theoretical side of things, its not "how to diagnose X" or how to replace a certain component. I can find that out by reading a manual, watching a video, or whatever. Its the experience to know when a bolt/nut is going to snap/round off, and what to do when it does. Its also all the things that I dont know I dont know, if that makes sence? I dont want to Dunning-Kruger myself, I know that what I know isnt enough, I cant see the full picture, but I can see the frame it sits in, if that makes sence?

ER1C said:

You could buy a landrover and learn how to do it properly with workshop manuals/youtube/tutorials. Keep in mind any garage isnt going to do a drop arm in 3 years, or may never touch a clutch, most of what comes in is run of the mill stuff.

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I have... but the problem is, theres nobody to tell me if Ive done it right. And theres a big difference between the quality of a repair thats acceptable to do to your own car, and the quality of a repair that someone else is paying you to do, or at least there should be.

Thanks to all who have offered their advice so far, its much appreciated!

Get a welding job. Most landrovers need this
And probally easier to do than engines.
Welding may seem a mundane job but you can branch out into other things and not just cars.
Imagine a mobile welding contractor and the prices they charge in a rural area when machinery needs sorting.

Most things now have so much electronics you won’t be fixing them soon.

Iv been lucky all my jobs I have walked into & got on job training/qualifications.
Only thing Iv done myself was HGV test after redundancy.

I have been a hgv mechanc for nearly 40 years, every day you learn something new, the amount of tools you need is scary.
The amount of skills you need is also scary, fix shti your boos cannot, yes all day long, cut bearing track off stub axles with oxy torch, adjust valve clearances on a 16 litre v8, service a ford fiesta, sharpen a ride on lawnmowers blades, plug in the laptop to sort out another warning lamp, open an ecu and resolder some dodgy connectors, sometimes all on the same day, basically they expect you to know and fix everything.

Getting someone to believe in you can be bloody hard.

There are basically two paths, one learn the techy side which is very hard outside a main dealer, or learn the donkey side, and as mad as it sounds I reckon this is the way to make money, as every tom dick and harry thinks they are a computer genius, but very few are good with their hand/spanners, and as time marches on less and less will be able to do the donkey work, so their value will increase.

There has probably never been a better time to learn from the internet with hi def videos. You can always set yourself up recording as you do things as well.

The degree and education will REALLY help if you need a loan/credit facilities/mortgage for when you go into business if you wanted.

I feel for you, I personally hated school & left at 16, without taking my exams, in 1980. I had a sat job at 15 valeting ex cop cars (great laugh). I'd been riding/tinkering with motorbikes (well mopeds actually or mostly, Puch maxi's, NSU Quickly's & Honda C50/70/90') since I was 12 as this was my passion & as soon as I got on the road legally at 16 I went to the local Honda bike dealer to 'offer my services' cleaning the second hand bikes on Saturdays for £5 a day but the best bit was hanging about in the workshop where I offered to degrease the stripped down engines etc but essentially picking up the bits you mentioned "getting a feel" for when bolts were going to snap & drilling out said broken bolt/stud etc & eventually because of my 'enthusiasm' I was offered a full time position as an apprentice mechanic doing block release at Honda UK in Chiswick. Fast forward & now a school cartaker but the 'skills' you pick have transferred to be able to do basic plumbing/electrical/building related stuff so I can see where you're coming from & feel it might be worth approaching somewhere with your 'enthusiasm' to see if you can get your foot in the door so to speak (decent pay or lack of it didn't enter my head at the time). I have drilled & tapped out the broken ex. manifold studs on my TD5 D2 without batting an eyelid along with countless other repairs/servicing (along with my FL1, wife & daughters cars. So don't give up because if I was in business you might be just the person I was looking for I've seen many a 'bike' mechanic who had no enthusiasm & in turn didn't know one end of a spanner....... All the best.

Hicap phill said:

Get a welding job. Most landrovers need this
And probally easier to do than engines.
Welding may seem a mundane job but you can branch out into other things and not just cars.
Imagine a mobile welding contractor and the prices they charge in a rural area when machinery needs sorting.

Most things now have so much electronics you won’t be fixing them soon.

Iv been lucky all my jobs I have walked into & got on job training/qualifications.
Only thing Iv done myself was HGV test after redundancy.

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Welding cars stuff that, my mate is a nuclear welder/fabrication manager basic pay is just under 70k + overtime & shift allowance ect. He started when he was 23 as a welder & walked in at 30k starting pay, now he's on rock star wages & he's 33.
Lying under old rusty wrecks or not lol