Birdbrain · Aug 2, 2018

I have no affiliation with them but Allisport now do an intercooler for the 200 tdi engine with 40% increase in surface area that'll fit as a direct replacement to the orignal unit. Mine had been cleaned out after the Defenders rebuild but after 27 years was getting a bit past its best so bit the bullet and bought this new one. Easy enough to fit and is a direct replacement.

I've noticed an improvement in performance . Not dramatic but enough to make driving a bit more fun and refined. Fuel economy does appear to be slightly better. I'd already fitted silicone hoses to the old unit so these were retained.

I thought those that may be considering an upgrade may be interested.

johnlad · Aug 2, 2018

I also have one on my 200tdi, along with a hybrid turbo and fuel pump mods,and an increase in boost pressure

dag019 · Aug 3, 2018

This is interesting, I have the full width alisport intercooler on my 200tdi and on its own it made no difference to the drive, power, mpg, etc.

johnlad · Aug 3, 2018

dag019 said:
This is interesting, I have the full width alisport intercooler on my 200tdi and on its own it made no difference to the drive, power, mpg, etc.

I wouldn’t expect it to make a lot of difference on its own, my thinking is it’s there to make the most of the other mods, in my case by fitting a hybrid turbo and upping boost, more heat will be created in the charged air, which then passes through the larger intercooler reducing its temp.
Then the extra fuel and colder extra air should give more power

dag019 · Aug 3, 2018

johnlad said:
I wouldn’t expect it to make a lot of difference on its own, my thinking is it’s there to make the most of the other mods, in my case by fitting a hybrid turbo and upping boost, more heat will be created in the charged air, which then passes through the larger intercooler reducing its temp.
Then the extra fuel and colder extra air should give more power

I completely agree, I was not expecting it to make any difference on its own but having it would allow me to make other changes which would make a difference. But it is intersting that the OP said:

Birdbrain said:
I've noticed an improvement in performance . Not dramatic but enough to make driving a bit more fun and refined. Fuel economy does appear to be slightly better.

johnlad · Aug 3, 2018

dag019 said:
I completely agree, I was not expecting it to make any difference on its own but having it would allow me to make other changes which would make a difference. But it is intersting that the OP said:

Maybe their existing intercooler was loosing some boost, so a new one would give the impression of increased performance

300bhp/ton · Aug 3, 2018

dag019 said:
This is interesting, I have the full width alisport intercooler on my 200tdi and on its own it made no difference to the drive, power, mpg, etc.

It should have made a noticeable difference. If you’d already tweaked the pump then the bigger intercooler will mostly aid lower egt’s and make it feel a little more free revving rather than a big power boost. But it should have felt different to drive.

If you felt no difference at all. Logically it leaves only two answers.

1. There is something up with the engine. Maybe it’s making hardly any boost. And is getting no gain from the bigger IC.

2. It did make a difference, only you are not sensitive enough to notice. Not meaning as an insult, but some people just aren’t very perceptive of these kinds of things.

300bhp/ton · Aug 3, 2018

johnlad said:
I wouldn’t expect it to make a lot of difference on its own, my thinking is it’s there to make the most of the other mods, in my case by fitting a hybrid turbo and upping boost, more heat will be created in the charged air, which then passes through the larger intercooler reducing its temp.
Then the extra fuel and colder extra air should give more power

It’s also worth remembering Tdi’s Vary greatly in how they perform. Some just run better than others. And no matter what you do to the lower performing ones. They never match the same tweaks on other motors. Pretty much any Tdi tuner will tell you this. It’s probably true of most engines, but very evident with Tdi’s.

The stock intercooler is also tiny. And as someone else mentioned, swapping a new one on might have solved a boost leak also.

But bigger intercoolers do make a difference. My Uncle has two 2.2 Puma 90’s. One a 12 plate and the other a 65.

The 12 plate runs a lot better and is lot more pokey than the 65 plate. My Uncle has just swapped on a large intercooler to the 65 plate and it’s transformed how it drives. No other changes or mapping.

dag019 · Aug 3, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
It should have made a noticeable difference. If you’d already tweaked the pump then the bigger intercooler will mostly aid lower egt’s and make it feel a little more free revving rather than a big power boost. But it should have felt different to drive.

If you felt no difference at all. Logically it leaves only two answers.

1. There is something up with the engine. Maybe it’s making hardly any boost. And is getting no gain from the bigger IC.

2. It did make a difference, only you are not sensitive enough to notice. Not meaning as an insult, but some people just aren’t very perceptive of these kinds of things.

The inter-cooler was the first thing that I did, before changing the turbo or the fueling. With a standard factory setup for everything else the larger inter-cooler made no difference at all (or posisble number 2 on you points). But I was not expecting the inter-cooler to make any difference. Fitting the inter-cooler was the first step in allowing me to make the changes that DO make a difference without risking engine damage.

lynall · Aug 3, 2018

dag019 said:
This is interesting, I have the full width alisport intercooler on my 200tdi and on its own it made no difference to the drive, power, mpg, etc.

Thats pretty much how it should be, extra fuel makes the power, theres always to much air at any one time.
If you remember years ago when you car went better on damp cool mornings? well thats the knatts cock difference a cooler on its own could possibly make, but any other tweak already done will make the new cooler unoticeable.

Birdbrain · Aug 8, 2018

Just to add that the vehicle has just been completely rebuilt and the original intercooler was cleaned inside and outside. The guide pin in the injection pump had already been turned by 180 degrees so it was probably over-fuelling slightly with the stock intercooler. I've noticed a real difference mid range when pulling in 5th from 50 -60 mph

Al2O3 · Aug 9, 2018

300bhp/ton said:
It should have made a noticeable difference. If you’d already tweaked the pump then the bigger intercooler will mostly aid lower egt’s and make it feel a little more free revving rather than a big power boost.

I would expect the uprated intercooler to compliment the FIP mod, so power should increase. EGT would then go up as he'll be getting a more efficient, so bigger, bang.

Chalky. · Aug 9, 2018

Al2O3 said:
I would expect the uprated intercooler to compliment the FIP mod, so power should increase. EGT would then go up as he'll be getting a more efficient, so bigger, bang.

This is exactly what I thought. I've got a td5 90, and a bout 2 years back I had it mapped by dynachip, I've noticed on hard acceleration or puling away when towing it gets a bit of a sooty exhaust, someone mentioned fitting a larger IC and that doing so would clean up the exhaust. But I havent yet as I was fearful of increasing egt... @sierrafery seemed to say this was not the case! Would like some opinions on this from guys in the know because id like to get an updated IC, but not if its going to increase egts

Hicap phill · Aug 9, 2018

Bigger intercooler will drop the EGT down. This is due to the larger surface area cooling the gasses.
You will notice the difference

Al2O3 · Aug 9, 2018

Gottschalk said:
This is exactly what I thought. I've got a td5 90, and a bout 2 years back I had it mapped by dynachip, I've noticed on hard acceleration or puling away when towing it gets a bit of a sooty exhaust, someone mentioned fitting a larger IC and that doing so would clean up the exhaust. But I havent yet as I was fearful of increasing egt... @sierrafery seemed to say this was not the case! Would like some opinions on this from guys in the know because id like to get an updated IC, but not if its going to increase egts

Fuel won't burn without the oxygen in the air. If you want to get more power from your engine you will need to burn more fuel, but you need more air at the same time to make it burn efficieny and so get max power out of the fuel. The fresh air that gets pulled through your airfilter is compressed by your turbo so you can ram more air in for the extra fuel supply. Unfortunately, the turbo heats this air up causing it to expand and so decrease the air density. Lower density means less air per cubic unit of gas going through the inlet manifold. The intercooler's job is to cool this air down, after the turbo, to increase the air density again and so making more available for the extra fuel. More fuel + more air = bigger bang. As the engine releases more energy from the fuel your EGT will go up. Monitoring your EGT enables you to back off the gas before your engine gets to melting point.

Chalky. · Aug 9, 2018

Al2O3 said:
Fuel won't burn without the oxygen in the air. If you want to get more power from your engine you will need to burn more fuel, but you need more air at the same time to make it burn efficieny and so get max power out of the fuel. The fresh air that gets pulled through your airfilter is compressed by your turbo so you can ram more air in for the extra fuel supply. Unfortunately, the turbo heats this air up causing it to expand and so decrease the air density. Lower density means less air per cubic unit of gas going through the inlet manifold. The intercooler's job is to cool this air down, after the turbo, to increase the air density again and so making more available for the extra fuel. More fuel + more air = bigger bang. As the engine releases more energy from the fuel your EGT will go up. Monitoring your EGT enables you to back off the gas before your engine gets to melting point.

Aye, I know that matey, its common sense to presume that fitting an uprated IC will therefore create higher internal temps I.e egt's, but when I suggested this in a previous convo I got absolutely slated for saying it!! I think many are under the impression that because it has 'cooler' in the name they automatically presume that it decreases egt. I know that the colder, denser air coming through a larger IC is going to make a bigger bang=hotter burn = higher exhaust temps. Its purely logical, but the fella I mentioned before, along with others, disagreed!

Chalky. · Aug 9, 2018

Hicap phill said:
Bigger intercooler will drop the EGT down. This is due to the larger surface area cooling the gasses.
You will notice the difference

But its cooling the oxygen before it gets burnt, so making an increased explosion inceases the egt, naturally.

Coffee Addict · Aug 9, 2018

Sorry to hijack!

Seeing as your all talking EGT's (I have popped this in my electrical post but obviously that's well off the beaten track - if your good with the leccy though if you could look at my post that be awesome)

Recently fitted an EGT gauge before playing with my pump - have mounted it in the egr blanking plate. Driving around it seems to sit around 250c (gauge starts at 200c) - on a steep maybe 1 mile hill I've manged to get it to go to 350-375c with some pushing - like past how I'd normally drive kind of pushing. At present I believe my pump is stock and not played with.

Do these numbers reflect yours? Only reason I ask is I wonder if the probe is positioned properly or if I'm getting a false reading - if its not reading properly and is actually hitting 500c not 300c as you know it would be a bad thing indeed.

This is on a 97' 300tdi on a 110.

EDIT: To add, boost gauge is fitted and she holds 14psi as full boost so you know what that's doing. No black smoke present at any time except little puff on start up (this is why I believe all is stock)

Ta

Mark

Hicap phill · Aug 9, 2018

My pump/turbo was wound out with EGT probe & I noticed when I put this on it dropped slightly.
Probe was put in where the erg valve was.this is on a 300tdi

Also I the changed to a charge cooler. These are water cooled intercoolers so are working even when stationary

Yep good idea to have a probe to stop piston melt

Al2O3 · Aug 9, 2018

Gottschalk said:
This is exactly what I thought. I've got a td5 90, and a bout 2 years back I had it mapped by dynachip, I've noticed on hard acceleration or puling away when towing it gets a bit of a sooty exhaust, someone mentioned fitting a larger IC and that doing so would clean up the exhaust. But I havent yet as I was fearful of increasing egt... @sierrafery seemed to say this was not the case! Would like some opinions on this from guys in the know because id like to get an updated IC, but not if its going to increase egts

A lot of soot would indicate an inefficient burn. ie not enough air (oxygen) However, I'm sure Dynachip would have given you a remap to suit your Td5. If it is becoming sooty then maybe your I/C needs a clean out or your MAF sensor is playing up.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads