B

Barry McGill

Member
Yesterday all was well and this morning 1998 landy 90 300tdi will not start and the solenoid on the starter motor just clicks. Earth cable and power to starter motor seem OK but on checking all fuses the 10A fuse inside the cab had blown. Replaced but now even with the key out of the ignition the warning lights remain lit (oil, battery, handbrake) and the starter motor still just clicks. Could this be a faulty ignition barrel causing both problems and how can I check if this is the case. Fortunately I have a battery isolator so am not draining the battery which is only a few months old and showing green for OK. Any help or ideas greatly appreciated
 
Could be bad connection to solenoid contacts if starter not turning or worn brushes. If starter is turning will be sprag clutch failed.
 
with proper care - you can bypass the in cab electrical stuff, and run a lead to the solenoid feed to see if it will turn over.... it shouldn't start cos the FIP solenoid shouldn't be live.... but be prepared in case it is.. this also bypasses any dodgy wiring - so it doesn't work, the problem is downstream... I.E. starter motor has insufficient smoke left inside :D

All the lights on does sound like a failed switch, or an earth issue to me, but could easily be a stuck starter.
 
Ok in sequence
a) I have tried the trusted method of smacking the starter motor but didn't work
b) Cleaned the solenoid external contacts but not checked brushes. Can this be done without dismounting the starter motor?
c) Starter motor is not turning just hearing a click when ignition is activated via key
d) The 60A fuse is OK as I checked all the engine bay fuses and inside cab fuses.
e) Getting late now so will try the bypass tomorrow but what gauge of wire should I use for the bypass

Many thanks guys any other thoughts? I still have a gut feel that the dash lights staying on suggests an ignition barel/switch problem but maybe there are two problems happening in parallel lol never rains but it pours and don't problems come in three's
 
Re the bypass if this a wire from the battery + to the small wire terminal on the solenoid ?

Also I have disconnected all the terminals on the ignition switch and when I turn on the battery isolator the warning lights (oil, battery, handbrake and fuel gauge) come live ?????? Could this be related to the starter solenoid or what else could be wrong that is providing power to these instruments without the key or ignition connections. Any help appreciated as I am now at the scratching head stage
 
This happened to me just a few weeks ago, same symptoms, lights on the dash with the key removed. Sadly on mine it fried my starter motor too. I replaced my ignition barrel at the cost of a few quid and that cured it (with a new starter obviously!). It's a bit of a pain to get to the screw at the back of the barrel, however if you remove the binnacle and loosen the dash, and use a socket set style screwdriver bit between finger and thumb you can loosen it.

I would also strongly recommend taking the earth strap off the chassis and cleaning the contact area. I took mine off to drop my fried starter motor, and then just reinstalled without cleaning. I then had an intermittent problem resulting in very slow cranking and lots of clicking, which was cured instantly once the area had been wire brushed.

Good luck.
 
If you have disconnected the wires from the switch and the lights are still coming on, it points to a battery contact somewhere. Disconnect the battery cable from the starter and see if the lights go out.
 
agree with above - either the lights are earthing through a short in the loom, or are getting back fed by the lack of an earth in a related circuit. IME, the latter is more likely, and also LR stuff of this era have a significant reputation for earth points corroding, and earth straps failing. - sometimes, a jump lead can be used as an extra earth - from batt -VE to, for example, the starter motor body.... and when the problem goes away, then you have found your issue..... this is also a pretty safe procedure as all you are doing is earthing stuff, which should be earthed anyway..... (still need a bit of caution)
 
I have disconnected the battery cable in fact all cables from the starter and the dash lights still come on and also found out accidentally that the wipers also work without the key in ie same as dash lights. In respect of the dash lights how do I locate a short in the loom (don't think I am going to like the answer lol). I will try cleaning earths again and retesting the starter with a bypass
 
As per Disco1BFG, definitely worth trying using a jump lead to earth the bulkhead and or chassis properly, earth faults throw up all sorts of odd things. If this doesn't help you can prove the battery contact by putting a test lamp on the ignition switch terminals. There should only be battery on the brown (unfused battery) connector. If you have battery on the others, you have a battery contact. Leave the Battery cable off the starter to eliminate it from the list of suspects.
 
Barry McGill said:
I have disconnected the battery cable in fact all cables from the starter and the dash lights still come on and also found out accidentally that the wipers also work without the key in ie same as dash lights. In respect of the dash lights how do I locate a short in the loom (don't think I am going to like the answer lol). I will try cleaning earths again and retesting the starter with a bypass
Click to expand...

As per our PM's - this is sounding more and more like a major earth fault - I.E. it sounds like you haven't got any proper earth return at all - only through which ever ancilliary it can use.

If this is a loom fault, then I suspect it is something very simple, or you'll find the loom chafed very badly where it passes through the BH...
 
Ok tomorrow providing weather ok am going to recheck all the chassis earths and also jump and earth direct from the battery and see if that works. If it doesn't I will remove the starter motor and do a bench test with a spare battery to see if its OK or defunct. Hopefully it is only an earth fault. I have removed the ignition barrel and continuity checked the terminals with key turning and they all seem to be OK but when I replace it I will check again for voltage. I am trying hard not to have to mess about with all the wiring in the loom but will inspect what I can before any decision on taking more of the land apart. Going to be a long weekend I think
 
So everyone who has been helping knows where I am with these problems it took me two days to remove the engine side bolt that held the starter motor on. In the end a cold chisel and specially modified spanner got it moving. Getting it out was a pain in the neck. Bench tested the starter motor and the solenoid works and pushes out the gear but the gear end does not spin which I presume it should (to turn the flywheel). Took the end cap off and the brushes look so I am assuming its something more internal that is preventing the gear spinning. I think I will invest in a new starter motor as I really don't want to get this one working then find in a couple of weeks I end up with the same problem. What do you think?
Also while I order and wait for the new started motor I will begin tracing the electrical fault and let you and the others know what I find. I am however buying a new ignition switch (end part) just to be on the safe side as they are quite cheap.
Just to say I appreciate the help and advice
 
Its possible that the solenoid itself is kaput, rather than the motor, your call as to which way you go with that. You can bypass the solenoid too - heavy +ve cable to the solenoid output terminal.... but make sure the motor is in a vice... cos if it does spin up - it will do so with some vigour - there's a lot of inertia "in" there !!

If funds permit, then by all means fit a new starter and solenoid... I have PM'd you our supplier details.....
 
I will try that just for my own satisfaction but if the solenoid was kaput I would not have expect it to throw out the gear wheel. Will let you know. Any way I really don't want to end up if a few weeks or months having the starter fail again given what a pain it is to remove and replace. So I think I will buy a complete new unit. Just for info I am going to remove the bottom stud and replace with a bolt as per the upper fixing and this will make removal and replacement a lot easier especially with the modified spanner I created lol
 
Ok Disco1BFG have to say a big thank you as when I bridged the actual coil connection the motor spun the gear. Then I used the original bridge just to the solenoid and everything worked. I will clean up all the contacts and anything else I can see. Retest and if all OK consider refitting it. Will definitely refit it if I can remove the stud and convert the bottom fixing to a bolt like the other two because then I can remove it easily. The brushes looked only half used so do you think it will be reliable given its been working for the last 16 years of so?
 
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