Robert Mekes · Mar 26, 2016

Hello, I am on the market for a second hand defender engine and wonder if anyone can help. I would like to size down from my current defender V8 3.5 petrol engine to an engine that's more frugal with its fuel consumption. Does anyone know or can anyone advice where I can buy a second hand land rover defender engine? Appreciate all help I can get.
Robert

Marmaduke · Mar 27, 2016

Welcome to the forum, I take it you'll be swapping to a diesel, either a 200 or 300 tdi or if you fancy something a bit more challenging a TD5. Ebay or Gumtree or someone is selling a 300 tdi in the for sale section

Robert Mekes · Mar 28, 2016

Thanks Marmaduke. There's a whole bunch being sold on eBay, the question is whether sellers can be trusted and the quality of the engine supplied.

flat · Mar 28, 2016

Whatever engine you get would be worth stripping and checking internally anyway and rebuilding with new seals etc so as long as the new engine runs with no problems should be good

Marmaduke · Mar 28, 2016

Robert Mekes said:
Thanks Marmaduke. There's a whole bunch being sold on eBay, the question is whether sellers can be trusted and the quality of the engine supplied.

I know, I'm one of them

no.141941222635

waldamar · Mar 28, 2016

Have you not considered keeping the V8 and converting to LPG?
IMHO it's best to keep original, you've got an appreciating classic there, LPG conversion is cheaper and quicker, very possibly diesel is going to go up in price as it's the new "evil" fuel - or at least not go down ant time soon. I've just overhauled my LPG system and fitted a "Blos" thingy, brilliant.

waldamar · Mar 28, 2016

ps welcome

Turboman · Mar 28, 2016

I would keep the v8 too, that is a rare vehicle, and a very good one.
New engine and conversion time and trouble will pay for a fair bit of fuel.
And Tdi are a good engine, but most will be fairly worn by now. V8s are strong and low stressed.
Knives are out for diesels on environmental grounds, petrol may be more desirable in years to come.

markomate2 · Mar 28, 2016

Marmaduke said:
I know, I'm one of them no.141941222635

LOL Love that Ebay handle!
Cant see petrol making a big comeback, the diesel emissions issues will be resolved...eventually!
The difference in economy is just so big...15MPG against 30 MPG (both figs approx)!, but my TD5 ave is 32MPG)
Another extreme example, my back up car is a 2L petrol CMax, my mate has the same car, same year but the diesel one, I get 31MPG, he gets 70MPG!
And all fuel be going up in price...soon!
Also if the regulators start to make retrospective wholesale changes, they will have a ton of compensation to pay out.
I think the VW thing did stir up a lot of mess but the rules will be changed to make even "failed" tests acceptable, their is just too much money involved.
Mark

Turboman · Mar 28, 2016

markomate2 said:
LOL Love that Ebay handle!
Cant see petrol making a big comeback, the diesel emissions issues will be resolved...eventually!

Maybe so, maybe not.
But they certainly hant been when Tdi were built, which was what OP suggested.

They dont need to make regulatory changes to get old diesels off the road, just make a few more adjustments to emissions testing, or road tax banding.

I dont think the old vehicle lobby has as much lobbying power as in times gone by, sadly.

waldamar · Mar 28, 2016

It'd be interesting to know what mileage the OP is actually doing............................ of course you get more mpg from an oil burner - but the conversion is a lot of time/expense and will de-value the original vehicle [loads of tdi conversions out there - less and less original vehicles] LPG still the best, easiest compromise.................... [IMHO]

Turboman · Mar 28, 2016

I can get 20 mpg out of my 3.9 driving it carefully. Dont see why a well tuned 3.5 wouldnt get about the same. Lots of power and torque, you dont need give it a lot of gas.
I get about 18 mpg towing a cattle float on the open road, Doubt if a a Tdi would get more than 20 doing same.

300bhp/ton · Mar 29, 2016

Robert Mekes said:
Hello, I am on the market for a second hand defender engine and wonder if anyone can help. I would like to size down from my current defender V8 3.5 petrol engine to an engine that's more frugal with its fuel consumption. Does anyone know or can anyone advice where I can buy a second hand land rover defender engine? Appreciate all help I can get.
Robert

Hi Robert.

Do you have an actual Defender or is it a 90? If it's a factory V8, then you may want to consider what it might be worth in a few years. Fitting a diesel engine will de-value it.

Also a diesel will be noisy and un-refined by comparison. And depending on how many miles you do a year, might not actually be that much better on fuel.

A Tdi Defender is a 24-27mpg vehicle. With lows of 22 and highs of sub 30mpg.

A V8 should be a 15-17mpg vehicle. With lows of 12 and highs of around 19mpg. Assuming a low CR 3.5 on carbs.

A bigger displacement V8 on EFI should be capable of around 22mpg and average a couple of mpg better than the carb one.

If it is a factory V8, then swapping in a Tdi isn't quite as easy, as you'll have the LT-85 gearbox and a different seat box to early Tdi's. You'll also fine the V8 is geared very differently and will likely be to tall for a standard Tdi engine.

300bhp/ton · Mar 29, 2016

Robert Mekes said:
Thanks Marmaduke. There's a whole bunch being sold on eBay, the question is whether sellers can be trusted and the quality of the engine supplied.

Yes, no, maybe.

There isn't one seller on ebay. So you have to take your chances based on judgement and luck.

300bhp/ton · Mar 29, 2016

flat said:
Whatever engine you get would be worth stripping and checking internally anyway and rebuilding with new seals etc so as long as the new engine runs with no problems should be good

This isn't a bad idea. But it does add a lot of potential cost. Sometimes it's just easier to fit it and see how it goes. No point rebuilding something if it doesn't need it. And frankly it's hardly any more effort to rebuild after fitting it.

300bhp/ton · Mar 29, 2016

waldamar said:
Have you not considered keeping the V8 and converting to LPG?
IMHO it's best to keep original, you've got an appreciating classic there, LPG conversion is cheaper and quicker, very possibly diesel is going to go up in price as it's the new "evil" fuel - or at least not go down ant time soon. I've just overhauled my LPG system and fitted a "Blos" thingy, brilliant.

LPG is ok, but is expensive. If you only do low mileage it might take you 10 years to just break even.

Vehicles also do less mpg on LPG vs petrol and the cost is never half the amount. So savings are often less than those toted. And performance does suffer, even if it's marginal. And you have to find somewhere to fit the tanks.

I'm not against LPG, but it's not the quick win it sometimes appears to be.

As for diesel, well it's been cheaper than petrol recently.

300bhp/ton · Mar 29, 2016

markomate2 said:
The difference in economy is just so big...15MPG against 30 MPG (both figs approx)!, but my TD5 ave is 32MPG)

Bollox

There is no Defender ever built by Land Rover that can average 30mpg. Even they never claimed such nonsense.

Disco's are more aero friendly, so generally average better mpg. But 32mpg is likely a mis-calculation or a bad guess. Again, check what LR claim... if it could manage that, they would have claimed it.

For the record, I used a Td5 Disco for work recently, mostly longish distances and very sensible driving as fuel money was short. It did nowhere near 32mpg... nor does my Uncles one.

Remember they have huge tanks on them. So even 27mpg will mean it'll travel a long distance between fillups.

markomate2 · Mar 29, 2016

Sorry I was "visiting" from Disco forum!
Yes my Disco TD5 does get an average 32 MPG.
Most driving is on motorways and not towing and I have the CC set to 60 ish with 2500 RPM.
If its driven at higher motorway speeds yes the MPG does drop a lot.
Ive done quite a few tank/mileage checks and thats what I get.
Maybe its just my driving style!
Mark
Edit, OK I see how my "average" MPG would make it look like sometimes I get a lot more than 32MPG!
I dont use the car for short town trips so most driving is on longer trips, but my average does stay pretty constant, maybe down to 30MPG sometimes, but if its not driven hard it doesnt drop below 30.

waldamar · Mar 29, 2016

300bhp/ton said:
LPG is ok, but is expensive. If you only do low mileage it might take you 10 years to just break even.

Vehicles also do less mpg on LPG vs petrol and the cost is never half the amount. So savings are often less than those toted. And performance does suffer, even if it's marginal. And you have to find somewhere to fit the tanks.

I'm not against LPG, but it's not the quick win it sometimes appears to be.

As for diesel, well it's been cheaper than petrol recently.

LPG need not be expensive, especially old school open loop systems such as would be appropriate here, the OP could be running LPG for about £500 all in. [Now an all singing injection sequential system does cost a lot, but that's not what he needs]
True performance suffers a little but the V8 is one of the happiest engines on gas so hardly noticeable. True slightly less mpg but still around 50% cheaper than petrol so all good.
Tank placement is a pain but can be got around depending on the type of use vehicle gets - there are many options.
Who knows what's going to happen regarding diesel pollution, taxes, legislation etc. but we can be fairly certain LPG is going to carry on being considered a "greener" fuel than diesel
Above all the LPG entire system can be easily removed and the conversion reversed if/when the motor is worth silly money.

300bhp/ton · Mar 30, 2016

waldamar said:
LPG need not be expensive, especially old school open loop systems such as would be appropriate here, the OP could be running LPG for about £500 all in.

I think this price is only for people who have done it before, have some of the stuff and will be doing all the work themselves. For average Jo off the street it is likely to cost substantially more.

Maybe you could list and link all the items that would be needed however, might be handy for the op.

waldamar said:
[Now an all singing injection sequential system does cost a lot, but that's not what he needs]

Maybe, maybe not.

waldamar said:
True performance suffers a little but the V8 is one of the happiest engines on gas so hardly noticeable.

They tend to run hot. Shouldn't be an issue and there are loads running LPG. But there are potential pitfalls.

waldamar said:
True slightly less mpg but still around 50% cheaper than petrol so all good.

This is the crux of it though. It isn't 50% cheaper.

If the op is getting say 15mpg on petrol, then chances are on LPG it'll be more like 12mpg or less. A simple single point setup will not be all that efficient. LPG cost is also about 55-60% of petrol, not half the price. These figures simply do not translate to 50% cheaper to run.

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