50cc

50cc

Member
I'm putting in an engine from an MG and noticed the casting numbers are different. The engine that came in my Freelander has part number LCF102620 on the cylinder block, and only now I noticed it does not have a serial number, that part of the engine, along with the enige code is perfectly clear and empty. It does have an extra badge saying Ivor Searle meaning it will be a refurbished engine.

The new engine from the MG has part number LCF103010 on the cylinder block and 18K4FJ31 and a serial number machine on it.

Would anyone know what this could mean? I'm sort of worried that the new engine is not a 1.8 but lower as it also feels underpowered. But the serial number and engine code should say it really is a 1.8
 

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Can't help you with the numbers but my local garage spent an hour or two on a gutless petrol Freelander before they discovered it was a 1.4.
Might be worth getting it plugged in.
 
18K4 prefix shows its a 1.8K series, with 4 valves per cylinder.

Maybe it's a 135 BHP MGF engine, which will feel sluggish, until you get the revs above 4500 RPM.

Edit.
It looks like it's an MGF/ Lotus Elese engine block, maybe a complete engine, and could well be a 135 BHP unit.
 
Last edited:
DevonGuy said:
Can't help you with the numbers but my local garage spent an hour or two on a gutless petrol Freelander before they discovered it was a 1.4.
Might be worth getting it plugged in.
Click to expand...
Hi DevonGuy, thanks for the reply, how did they find out and what do mean getting it plugged in? Only way I could figure to find out if it truly is an 1.8 is taking the head off
 
Nodge68 said:
18K4 prefix shows its a 1.8K series, with 4 valves per cylinder.

Maybe it's a 135 BHP MGF engine, which will feel sluggish, until you get the revs above 4500 RPM.

Edit.
It looks like it's an MGF/ Lotus Elese engine block, maybe a complete engine, and could well be a 135 BHP unit.
Click to expand...

It was a complete unit, could indeed be 135 engine. Gets more power in higher range indeed but still nothing extreme, wil mess around more first. Would you know if the 135MGF has the same camshafts?
 
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50cc said:
It was a comply unit, could indeed be 135 engine. Gets more power in higher range indeed but still nothing extreme, wil mess around more first. Would you know if the 135MGF has the same camshafts?
Click to expand...

The 115/135 cam has longer duration/overlap than the standard 1.8 cam, 244° is standard, 252° is the 115/135.
I'm not sure what cams the FL1 have, as they seem to provide more low RPM torque, compared to the car based engine, although I guess the FL1 mapping could account for this.

@rob_bell is your man for K series tuning and information.
 
No, it isn't a 135. The J31 part of that engine number is the dressing code and tells us it is an early pre-2000 MGF 1.8MPi engine rated at 118PS. Non-air con and manual gearbox as originally built. :)

Be aware that the J31 will have a manual cam belt tensioner. I can't tell from your avatar, but this may be different from your engine?

I wasn't sure whether the FL1 used a different block casting to the MGF, given that the transmission arrangement is a little different with the 4WD - but it sounds as though that hasn't been a problem. :) Otherwise, the J31 should work without problems. My FL1 actually has a cylinder head from a Lotus Elise that originally dropped a valve ;)

PS if your engine is a little down on power, I'd recheck the cam timing - it could be a tooth out.
 
rob_bell said:
No, it isn't a 135. The J31 part of that engine number is the dressing code and tells us it is an early pre-2000 MGF 1.8MPi engine rated at 118PS. Non-air con and manual gearbox as originally built. :)

Be aware that the J31 will have a manual cam belt tensioner. I can't tell from your avatar, but this may be different from your engine?

I wasn't sure whether the FL1 used a different block casting to the MGF, given that the transmission arrangement is a little different with the 4WD - but it sounds as though that hasn't been a problem. :) Otherwise, the J31 should work without problems. My FL1 actually has a cylinder head from a Lotus Elise that originally dropped a valve ;)

PS if your engine is a little down on power, I'd recheck the cam timing - it could be a tooth out.
Click to expand...
Mine has J79 - is that the st'd K series 1.8 for a Freelander ? It also has the manual tensioner. Are you able to post that info so we can all work out how our FL motors began life? ie from an MG, Rover, LR...?
 
I would say so, yes. I know the MGF/TF codes as I researched these for my MGs! I'll check my FL, but that will have a later engine code as it a EU3 homologated 2001 model.

Where it comes to the engine, the J31 and the J79 are likely to be identical - only a different gearbox in this case and whether aircon was fitted or not. :)
 
Thanks for the info! I had no problem matching the engine with the gearbox, all fitted. I'll double check the timing belt indeed.

This and the previous engine both have manual tensioners indeed
 
Nodge68 said:
The 115/135 cam has longer duration/overlap than the standard 1.8 cam, 244° is standard, 252° is the 115/135.
I'm not sure what cams the FL1 have, as they seem to provide more low RPM torque, compared to the car based engine, although I guess the FL1 mapping could account for this.
Click to expand...
Do you have the cam spec's that are associated with the different cams? There is some info on this web page re MGF 1.8i [18K4F...] and the early 1.8VVC [18K4K...]. i was wondering about the K engined Rovers like the 200 and 25 as well as the MG ZRs and the FLI of course.
 
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Unfortunately not. Rob might know more.
If you look at the power plots for all these engines, you'll notice that the VVC makes around 15Nm more torque at 1000 RPM than any other K series, which can only be down to the timing of the inlet cam at that speed.
So finding a cam which gives similar inlet timing to the VVC at low RPM, will give you the best low RPM torque. Rob is the K series guru though, as all my engine experience is now 30 years out of date.
 
That's my webpage Alan :)
For production engines there are essentially just two specifications of cams used on the 1.8 (other than the VVC). The standard cam used on the 118PS variant of this engine is actually standard for all engine sizes from 1.4 litres to 1.8! The "Sport" cam used on the TF135 is a little warmer - as you can see from the specs included on that page. Interestingly, ZR, ZS and ZT did not use it - which seems a little odd, as their version of the "solid" cam K-series used the original "1.4 litre" specification cam.

I am not sure what spec the 115PS spec of the 1.6 litre engine used - I thought it may be the same as the sport cam used in the 135PS 1.8, but I have never confirmed this.

You may be interested to know that the TF135 cam is the same specification used by Lotus in their series 1 Lotus Elise 135... I have fitted these to both of my MGFs :)
 
Nodge68 said:
Unfortunately not. Rob might know more.
If you look at the power plots for all these engines, you'll notice that the VVC makes around 15Nm more torque at 1000 RPM than any other K series, which can only be down to the timing of the inlet cam at that speed.
So finding a cam which gives similar inlet timing to the VVC at low RPM, will give you the best low RPM torque. Rob is the K series guru though, as all my engine experience is now 30 years out of date.
Click to expand...
That would be a neat thing to achieve, but you may pay the penalty at higher rpm - that's where the VVC earnt its "Very very clever" nickname - it optimises valve open overlap between inlet and exhaust over the whole rpm - so you gain torque at the bottom end while also gaining power at the top end so you can have your cake and eat it.

Over 20 years old now, but here's where we did some filter testing back in the day - and overlapped the power and torque curves two MGFs, one with a 1.8MPi and the other a VVC engine:

vvc_mpi_cf_kn.jpg
 
That's a very informative graph! Thank you. I've been comparing the part numbers on the cams I have with what's listed on rimmers and trying to work out where the FL1s fit into the scheme of things. I'd come to the conclusion that the 1.4, 1.6 & 1.8 pretty much used the same cams. Part numbers superseded to newer numbers that apply across a wide range of engines. Fitting an early VVC to a FLI still looks like a good idea. Can the MEMs 2J? be piggybacked onto the MEMs 1.9 to run the engine?
 
A MEMS2J can be re-mapped - although the ROM needs to be removed and replaced with a new EEPROM. SAWS Tuning can do this - have a chat with Stephen: not sure whether he's ever put together a MEM2J with a FL1 map before. One question that does crop up, and that is how many channels the ECU needs for the FL1 versus the MG and Rover instalations? Again, Stephen might know :)

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