Nodge,
thanks, just googled Bell not too far from Newport,

show my ignorance again I assume there is no way to tell if pinion gears are damaged without removing ird, and for learning purposes why if they are damaged do you need a blanking plate ie what does it blank. Is there are hardy spicer on front end of front end of front shaft.

have made a vcu jig and weight give it to garage and video link tomorrow.

Thanks again for help, much appreciated, hate not have some limited understanding of these things.

terrier989

Only way I know how to check the drive shaft is to lie on the ground, reach under the front of the car and push it around. If the CV joint is gone it should be obviously different to the other side. I'm with Nodge on buying unbranded drive shafts (even Bearmach) The best compromise I know of are the reconditioned GKN supplied by Eurocarparts/Carparts4less.
BTW it could be the front AND the rear. Rear diff supports could be shot too, same method to test it by pushing the prop shaft around.

Grumpygel,

as you can see limited knowledge at this end.

As I understood it the IRD is driven by the gearbox and in turn drives the front and rear diffs so even with a 2 wheel drive you need a 1/2 functioning IRD and the IRD essentially contains the front diff mechanism

So I think what you are saying is your replaced all the bearing etc but by removing crown wheel you removed drive to the rear and left the damaged pinions in and by refitting propshafts you avoided the need to use blanking plates, still unsure where this blanking plate would go, oh and in this configuration doesn't matter if vcu is stuffed.

terrier

terrier989 said:

Grumpygel,

as you can see limited knowledge at this end.

As I understood it the IRD is driven by the gearbox and in turn drives the front and rear diffs so even with a 2 wheel drive you need a 1/2 functioning IRD

So I think what you are saying is your replaced all the bearing etc but by removing crown wheel you removed drive to the rear and left the damaged pinions in and by refitting propshafts you avoided the need to use blanking plates, still unsure where this blanking plate would go, oh and in this configuration doesn't matter if vcu is stuffed.

terrier

Click to expand...

If only short term just pull the prop shaft off and forget about it. The TD4 and K series petrol Freelanders are very understeery 2WD so I wouldn't recommend leaving it like that but it'll be fine until you can get the VCU tested and replaced if necessary.

Alibro said:

Only way I know how to check the drive shaft is to lie on the ground, reach under the front of the car and push it around. If the CV joint is gone it should be obviously different to the other side. I'm with Nodge on buying unbranded drive shafts (even Bearmach) The best compromise I know of are the reconditioned GKN supplied by Eurocarparts/Carparts4less.
BTW it could be the front AND the rear. Rear diff supports could be shot too, same method to test it by pushing the prop shaft around.

Click to expand...

yes could well be front and back because i was convinced there was a quiet clicking.knock in rear b4 this noisy event happened also thanks for info re parts, didn't realise eurparts caan supply recon GKN, I presume you mean refurbed by gkn, not GKN old part refurbed by x?

The IRD is basically a differential for the front axle with a PTO poking out the back (the rear pinion) which drives the prop shafts to the back axle. Its a single box of tricks that bolts up to the gearbox (mounting plate) and some other bracketry connected to the engine and front subframe to keep it in place. The PTO is a direct drive geared jobby (via crown and pinion gears) geared up so that the rear diff gears back down to drive the back axle at (essentially) the same speed. The VCU allows some slippage so the axles can turn at (slightly) different speeds when cornering and allowing for slight differences in tyre wear.

I recon the first thing to do is test the VCU - as this is best done when it and the props are fitted to the vehicle. Its something everyone (with a 4WD Freelander) should be doing regularly and not necessarily relating to this issue. You'll then know if you need a VCU and if the transmission (IRD) is likely to have been damaged.

You then have the current issue to resolve - you're not sure what's causing the knocking so removing the prop shafts may eliminate some possible causes - ie put the focus on your drive shafts if it occurs after removal.

That and the condition of your transmission are probably separate issues - and the transmission may nopt be an issue anyway. If the VCU is giving a time over 2 minutes, its likely some damage has been done to your transmission, if its over 1 minute its still possible. Change the oil in the IRD - it it comes out grey the IRD is damaged (ground down bearings suspended in it) and you are probably better off staying 2WD. If the oil looks OK - then you are OK to run 4WD - although you may need a recon VCU dependent on what the VCU test says. Also make sure you have 4 identical (make & model) tyres.

When the VCU is overly tight or tyres are mismatched, this puts much more stress through the transmission, specifically the IRD & rear diff than it is designed to handle. This raises the rate of wear exorbitantly and parts fail rapidly. Usually it is the IRD - specifically the crown & pinion gears together with the bearings supporting them that drive the prop shafts. The components inside the IRD for FWD - ie reduction gears and differential usually remain in serviceable condition.

Another problem that occurs with the IRD, and which may apply to you, is that a failing RH drive shaft can destroy its support bearing which is inside the IRD. The bearing can be replaced, but if it gets bad enough differential gears inside the IRD can wear and/or jam destroying the IRD.

Just re-read the thread particularly madmustang #13 and Nodge #14

when I leave my drive I have a short run to end f road to the main road junction.

the approach to it is a short ( 6 cars length ) downhill abt 30deg at the main road which is agian down hill lft to right, I am waiting for clearance to go with a far degree of LH turn on. If I lift my foot on and off the brake quickly so the car hardly moves, on re applying the brake the nose will dip and there is an audible metallic squeak which you would not hear when travelling, i put it down to a squeaky suspension but it might be indicative of a knackered bush or joint somewhere.

So plan is

a) vcu test
b) if vcu ok -thorough check of all bushes joint etc back and front, and including drive shaft rotations
c) if vcu stuffed or nothing found in B) ird check oil for bits etc.
d) decision time

Terrier989

terrier989 said:

yes could well be front and back because i was convinced there was a quiet clicking.knock in rear b4 this noisy event happened also thanks for info re parts, didn't realise eurparts caan supply recon GKN, I presume you mean refurbed by gkn, not GKN old part refurbed by x?

Click to expand...

I don't know who does the refurbs but from personal experience they are significantly better than the aftermarket ones sold by Eurocarparts.
I'd be wary of ANY aftermarket drive shafts as there are probably only a couple of companies making them but lots of different companies selling them as their own.
Re testing the VCU it can be as simple as jacking up one wheel and seeing if you make it turn with a wheel brace on one of the wheel studs. This won't be definitive but if you can make it turn (even with some difficulty) then the VCU isn't a total disaster. With my first Freelander I struggled to turn it even with a socket on the hub nut. To know for sure how bad it is though you need to do the OWUT.