Well there's your problem straight off.
No one ever fixed a Land Rover without throwing a few expletives around.
Oh, and coffee, not tea
I did what you said, lost my temper and swore a bit, and now it seems to be running ok. Why that isn't in the Haynes manual I do not know.
In fact I took everything off again, noticed that injector 3 well was full of diesel, and swapped it for one from the donor car.
Also
tightened down injector collar bolts where there was still room to do so (very gently because they can sheer easily).
Put new (single) copper washers on each injector, discarding the old ones. These arrived this morning.
Swapped the furl return hose and plugs for the one from the donor car.
screwed down the harness cover so the bolt could plug the oil leaking hole.
Started up and black smoke gone..
So not quite the turbo disaster I immediately assumed it was (although I have to test run it to be sure I suppose). I don't know, never had a turbo go, luckily.
One thing has just occurred to me though. The copper washers I got from the local Landrover specialists were ridged on one side whereas the replacement ones that came today were flat smooth on both sides. I am therefore wondering if when crushed the ridge collapses in places sufficient to let fuel escape. Are injectors for other land rovers the same or maybe there is a a grooved surface to mate with the ridge on the washers. Why is the ridge there?
Just taken it for a spin. Slight puff of smoke under hard acceleration but nothing otherwise, so hopefully that is just clearing the tubes. No smell of diesel in cabin and no smoke or smell from the exhaust.
I hope this rather rambling thread is of some use to others occasionally. I've never done injectors before so all over the place, unfortunately for anyone following.
Two things I would say to anyone thinking of doing it for the first time - I think the trouble people have with injector removal is at least partly down to trying to take them out using force that is not centred. Unless they are withdrawn perpendicular to the shaft angle then force will have the effect of jamming them against the side of the well. Using the steel gouge chisel I was able to get the tip of chisel hard up against the main body of the injector all the way underneath the arm that connects to the fuel pipes from the common rail. That means applied leverage was forcing the injector out in a straight line. all eight injectors came out easily from cold engines using this method.
Second thing: copper washer seal is obviously critical and needs to be bang on, so I'd spend more time than you think necessary cleaning out that well. I would also suggest it is safest to use copper washers that are listed as specific to that vehicle, and make sure they are smooth on both sides. I don't know that is necessary but for me the problem only resolved when I used copper washers smooth on both sides and ordered specifically for the vehicle.
I hope this rather rambling thread is of some use to others occasionally. I've never done injectors before so all over the place, unfortunately for anyone following.
Two things I would say to anyone thinking of doing it for the first time - I think the trouble people have with injector removal is at least partly down to trying to take them out using force that is not centred. Unless they are withdrawn perpendicular to the shaft angle then force will have the effect of jamming them against the side of the well. Using the steel gouge chisel I was able to get the tip of chisel hard up against the main body of the injector all the way underneath the arm that connects to the fuel pipes from the common rail. That means applied leverage was forcing the injector out in a straight line. all eight injectors came out easily from cold engines using this method.
Second thing: copper washer seal is obviously critical and needs to be bang on, so I'd spend more time than you think necessary cleaning out that well. I would also suggest it is safest to use copper washers that are listed as specific to that vehicle, and make sure they are smooth on both sides. I don't know that is necessary but for me the problem only resolved when I used copper washers smooth on both sides and ordered specifically for the vehicle.
Hi, I'm glad you've managed to sort this as I've been following your 'frustrating' journey (I'm sure we've all been there with some problem or another on our LR's).
I got a set of genuine washers & o-rings for my TD4 (still got them) about a year or more ago but couldn't shift the injectors so I left them alone (I was only doing them due to mileage, 168,000, at the time but no running problems).
I have just done the inj. washers/collars on my 09 Mazda 2 1.4D (eng. is a Ford/PSA jobbie & also used in the Fiesta along with Citroen/peugeot models) due to diesel fumes in the cabin & a noise like a worn cam/follower. I got genuine Mazda parts from the local Mazda dealer under £13 for the 4 copper washers & 4 plastic collars (all the parts wee in Ford bags with Mazda stickers on them). It took me about 2 hrs per inj. using lots of cotton buds soaked with carb cleaner & a hoover with v small attachments to make sure nothing fell in the eng. & the inj. holes/seats were spotless, it now runs perfect & I can have the air con on without the risk of being gassed to death.
Sorry for the waffling but I personally would always use genuine items for jobs like this as they're inexpensive & you know they'll be right.
Hope you'll be trouble free now & never mind the tea/coffee I'd have a beer or wine, all the best.
). I got a set of genuine washers & o-rings for my TD4 (still got them) about a year or more ago but couldn't shift the injectors so I left them alone (I was only doing them due to mileage, 168,000, at the time but no running problems
).I have just done the inj. washers/collars on my 09 Mazda 2 1.4D (eng. is a Ford/PSA jobbie & also used in the Fiesta along with Citroen/peugeot models) due to diesel fumes in the cabin & a noise like a worn cam/follower. I got genuine Mazda parts from the local Mazda dealer under £13 for the 4 copper washers & 4 plastic collars (all the parts wee in Ford bags with Mazda stickers on them). It took me about 2 hrs per inj.
using lots of cotton buds soaked with carb cleaner & a hoover with v small attachments to make sure nothing fell in the eng. & the inj. holes/seats were spotless, it now runs perfect & I can have the air con on without the risk of being gassed to death.Sorry for the waffling but I personally would always use genuine items for jobs like this as they're inexpensive & you know they'll be right.
Hope you'll be trouble free now & never mind the tea/coffee I'd have a beer or wine
, all the best.Hi, I'm glad you've managed to sort this as I've been following your 'frustrating' journey (I'm sure we've all been there with some problem or another on our LR's
I got a set of genuine washers & o-rings for my TD4 (still got them) about a year or more ago but couldn't shift the injectors so I left them alone (I was only doing them due to mileage, 168,000, at the time but no running problems
I have just done the inj. washers/collars on my 09 Mazda 2 1.4D (eng. is a Ford/PSA jobbie & also used in the Fiesta along with Citroen/peugeot models) due to diesel fumes in the cabin & a noise like a worn cam/follower. I got genuine Mazda parts from the local Mazda dealer under £13 for the 4 copper washers & 4 plastic collars (all the parts wee in Ford bags with Mazda stickers on them). It took me about 2 hrs per inj.
Sorry for the waffling but I personally would always use genuine items for jobs like this as they're inexpensive & you know they'll be right.
Hope you'll be trouble free now & never mind the tea/coffee I'd have a beer or wine
Thanks Andy. I rigged up my hoover too (Henry) using a flexible filler nozzle off a diesel carry-can attached to the hoover nozzle, plus a length of 15mm copper pipe, and then a length of 10mm copper pipe into that. It was still quite hard to get all the crap out of there.
I think you are right about the smaller parts - not worth using substitutes.
Anyhow, I've run it again and it still seems fine. Much improved throttle response too. It was also getting thirsty, so hopefully that will have been cured into the bargain.
It's frustrating when doing it for the first time, but it is still a very useful learning experience. I won't be worried about doing injectors again and will recognise the symptoms of failing injectors with a bit of luck. Next up is to try to take the turbo off my donor vehicle.
Glad you got her going again. Sorry if I sounded like a brash told you so, but I wanted to snap your focus to those damned seals as they are blerry difficult, and it actually beggars belief how such a silly component, possibly being slighly less than 10,000% perfectly scrupulously clean can cripple the entire vehicle. In those circumstances it's easy to wander off on tangents chasing hypothetical what ifs.
No, I'm very grateful for your help. Yes, there seems to be no leeway at all. I was sure I must have sealed them but I obviously hadn't. Good lesson to learn though. Drives so much better (touch wood) I wish I'd done them ages ago.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
When my daughter wanted her first car about 6 years ago, she specifically wanted a Mazda 2/Demio. Tried to get her to get a Freelander so I could attempt to maintain if for her, but no. Then tried telling her to get summat like an MGB that might cost a little more (not much) but would be fun and an appreciating asset - she though my idea of 'fun' was rather strange and she wouldn't be seen dead in such a car. A 'Demi' it had to be.Hi, I'm glad you've managed to sort this as I've been following your 'frustrating' journey (I'm sure we've all been there with some problem or another on our LR's
I got a set of genuine washers & o-rings for my TD4 (still got them) about a year or more ago but couldn't shift the injectors so I left them alone (I was only doing them due to mileage, 168,000, at the time but no running problems
I have just done the inj. washers/collars on my 09 Mazda 2 1.4D (eng. is a Ford/PSA jobbie & also used in the Fiesta along with Citroen/peugeot models) due to diesel fumes in the cabin & a noise like a worn cam/follower. I got genuine Mazda parts from the local Mazda dealer under £13 for the 4 copper washers & 4 plastic collars (all the parts wee in Ford bags with Mazda stickers on them). It took me about 2 hrs per inj.
Sorry for the waffling but I personally would always use genuine items for jobs like this as they're inexpensive & you know they'll be right.
Hope you'll be trouble free now & never mind the tea/coffee I'd have a beer or wine
You don't get diesel Demios over here and they are almost all 1.3 autos. We test drove a few of them and they were complete shite. Even as she was driving them she was looking at me as if she couldn't believe how rubbish they were. She had been driving our 90's Starlet 1.3EFI which was a cracking motor. There are a fair few "Sport" models around, and in my book they look much better just by having some decent wheels on them and they are 1.5L - but for some reason she wouldn't entertain trying 1 out. Then 1 day we stumble on a 'standard' 1 but with the bigger 1.5L engine. Test drove it and it was like chalk and cheese, the extra 200cc turned in into a decent car and she bought it. An 09 car fresh off the boat from Japan. Been a good car for her and no problems with it.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
You should have shown her the Demio crash test, that would have changed her mind.
Actually it's pretty good for a small car, but I'd not be happy with my daughter in one.Having said that my eldest wanted a Fiat 500, and those are no better in a crash then the Mazda.
All's well that ends well then.
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GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
Probably safer than an MGBYou should have shown her the Demio crash test, that would have changed her mind.
Having said that my eldest wanted a Fiat 500, and those are no better in a crash then the Mazda.
All's well that ends well then.
Hi,that's a shame you don't get the oil burners as it's pretty nippy. I've only had this about six weeks as I wanted more mpg doing general running around than my FL1 & D2, which offer 33/23 ish mpg respectively. The Mazda is only £30 a yr road tax compared to £340 each for the LR's, on a recent run to Cromer it returned 70 mpg with the air con on all the time ! (avg seems to be about 48 mpg doing what I'd do in the LR's
.It had just been mot'd when I got it (2 fr. tyres & n/s wishbone needed to pass) & I've done the inj. seals, Gates water pump/timing belt kit & changed the radio/cd (as it wasn't working) for a double din CD/DAB h/u which needed the centre dash panel changing but all straight forward, so as you say decent little car.
The only thing is I can't find a w/s manual for it, Haynes don't list one which means I have to google any torque settings I need (no om with it either
).
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
Impressive economy, not sure what Frankie gets from her 1.5, she doesn't keep tabs on it.Hi,that's a shame you don't get the oil burners as it's pretty nippy. I've only had this about six weeks as I wanted more mpg doing general running around than my FL1 & D2, which offer 33/23 ish mpg respectively. The Mazda is only £30 a yr road tax compared to £340 each for the LR's, on a recent run to Cromer it returned 70 mpg with the air con on all the time ! (avg seems to be about 48 mpg doing what I'd do in the LR's
It had just been mot'd when I got it (2 fr. tyres & n/s wishbone needed to pass) & I've done the inj. seals, Gates water pump/timing belt kit & changed the radio/cd (as it wasn't working) for a double din CD/DAB h/u which needed the centre dash panel changing but all straight forward, so as you say decent little car.
The only thing is I can't find a w/s manual for it, Haynes don't list one which means I have to google any torque settings I need (no om with it either
Just searched our main car selling site over here and it looks like they started selling/importing diesel 2/Demios with the later model - there are none before 2014, but from 2014 year years 36 out of the 340 for sale are diesels.
Just rounding this off n case anyone finds the thread down the line. I was still getting diesel in the well around the top of the injectors even after changing and/or cleaning them. I thought it was dodgy copper washer seal, but it turns out I had mashed up the union nut connection on the feed pipes to number 4 injector without realising. I should have realised, because it felt wrong when I tightened it, and I just ignored that. Not a mistake I will repeat. Thanks to well received advice I have swapped out the injector with the damaged thread and retightened carefully, doing each one a little at a time. If you do it yourself for the first time, those nuts should go on easily just using your fingers. if they don't it means crossed threads and potential leak. The other thing I learned from the you tube, which I put on another thread, is that you can test the copper washer seal by holding a light piece of paper above the injectors while the engine is running. If there is a bad seal the air will escape with enough force to lift the piece of paper (if that is wrong, please correct me someone). Thanks once again for all the help. I will start a new thread begging for help tomorrow, when something else goes wrong.
Ian M in France
Well-Known Member
Hi great you have sorted this and good you have rounded it off, not so much here but on other sites I have read through a thread and it just stops and you never find out if they fixed it and how, the piece of paper over the injector is a good idea, I had a problem with a spark plug sealing one time and I sprayer wd40 down the hole and watched for bubbles
