jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
[JP];1181089 said:
Not at all! :doh:
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Done correctly you can end up with better articulation and a huge bill for other bits to be modified to compensate for their extra wear strain they will be under such as propshafts/suspension bushes/shocks/A frame balljoint etc etc. However many "lift kits" can actually end up limiting your articutaion so you just sit higher and have less ability dispite spending a fortune in the misguided belief that your vehicle is better when it is actually way worse than std. I would say 6 or 7 out of 10 lifted motors have a serious detrimental effect due to its poorly fitted, poorly thought out and complete disregard for any idea of how it should work.
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G-man
BBQ king
[JP];1181089 said:
marginal.... it just raises the centre of gravity and lifts the chassis further from the floor... your lowest point is still the axle cases that haven't moved
a better option would be to fit dislocation cones and longer shocks/drop mounts if you want better articulation
your wading depth will have increased though but if your lifting it you will most likely have already fitted a snorkel and extended your breathers so its a mute point
the only other benefit will be slightly better ramp and breakover angles but it will be very slight
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Dislocation cones......urm well then if you want to wave your wheel in the air often (and thats the only thing you will gain possibly a very very slight tracion aid in 5% of your offroad driving) you WIll need a wide angle probshaft because they will bind period. You will need longer shocks to allow for droop (hang on here we go again longer shocks means you loose compression.......... now you will need extended bump stops and you have lots of droop but no compression which is kinda crap ow you may also need extended brake line/s because the originals will be too short. get the idea long list gets longer.....) But it looks cool if you like that kinda thing.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Or you could buy new shock mounts to raise the shock but this usually fouls the rear tub (rear). You can buy altered angled shock mounts that are taller however the damping action may be decreased because of the angle meaning you will need higher spec dampers to deal with the different angle of the dangle and subsequent less travel resulting in expensive dampers more money gone out all to dangle you little wheel in the air to look cool.
G-man
BBQ king
depends where you drive off road...... beeston pit wou will find yourself on 2 or 3 wheels quite alot of the time (although we had one defender on 0 wheels) as some of the climbs if you don't dislocate you don't get up them......... my cousin pauls disco has x springs on the rear with an arb locker and that struggles with some of the climbs and there are some it can't do
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
Aye but I have swapped my axles for 4.7 ratio ones so it'll be going in the back again soon. my gearing is sweet now with my tyres!
![[JP]](/data/avatars/m/29/29578.jpg?1437394565){kind=avatar}
[JP]
New Member
interesting..
jai, your first post after mine was a straight "not at all"
and then you explain that yes, a lift kit improves articulation...
I know that, because on my disco I had more articulation that my mates standard disco...and a **** lot more articulation.
handy when you cross the tank tracks on Salisbury plains.
jai, your first post after mine was a straight "not at all"
and then you explain that yes, a lift kit improves articulation...
I know that, because on my disco I had more articulation that my mates standard disco...and a **** lot more articulation.
handy when you cross the tank tracks on Salisbury plains.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
because somtimes a lift kit can end up reducing your articulation dependant on how its fitted. articulation is overrated IMO! It looks cool if you like that but its mostly a show thing. A standard defender/disco on like for like tyres driven right can get to most places a lifted one can. Fit lockers and standard suspension you will **** mos things.
jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
I have a detroit locker in a salisbury rear axle soon to beinstalled in my 4.7:1 salisbury rear axle. Looking for a trutrac/quaife for the front end.
j.P you have to have a basis'for comparison. Mine does better than his is no real answer. I remember some time ago you saying you never got stuck on salisbury plain and never put difflock in. Therefore if that was correct the terrain you were crossing wan't that bad. One spinning wheel and you will be stuck. Articulation is good. Some lift kits help, alot do not! Dangling wheels that have bugger all weight on them through an open diff isn't gonna help much if at all. A lift kit any lift or change in suspension setup should be well thought out.
If a tyre binds/rubs anypart of the body chassis excluding radius arms (sometimes used in comps) then its a crap setup shoulda left it std IMO if it done well then great. 8 vehicles out of 10 will have some issues with their fitted lift kit that would render them crap IMO.
j.P you have to have a basis'for comparison. Mine does better than his is no real answer. I remember some time ago you saying you never got stuck on salisbury plain and never put difflock in. Therefore if that was correct the terrain you were crossing wan't that bad. One spinning wheel and you will be stuck. Articulation is good. Some lift kits help, alot do not! Dangling wheels that have bugger all weight on them through an open diff isn't gonna help much if at all. A lift kit any lift or change in suspension setup should be well thought out.
If a tyre binds/rubs anypart of the body chassis excluding radius arms (sometimes used in comps) then its a crap setup shoulda left it std IMO if it done well then great. 8 vehicles out of 10 will have some issues with their fitted lift kit that would render them crap IMO.
[JP]
New Member
yeh, i remember that, i even put a pic of the terrain I was crossing, the place is known as the pond by some members here....i did end up getting stuck, never there though, one of the times when going out with a group of LZoners.... and here's what happened, not even my lift helped, but my mate with a standard discovery wouldnt even made it that far...
actually, due to the improved attack and departure angles I managed to make it where Im in the pic, buckshot, with his standard Defender, got stuck going down and the only way out was reverse...
And my mate with a standard disco was a real comparison no? afterall his was standard, mine wasnt...
and my tyres didnt rub anywhere
I believe the lift kit also improve ground clearence (yes, I know!not on the axles) between axles, meaning less chance of grounding out in the middle in certain ocasions
like my mate here with his standard disco... if it had a lift kit, then he wouldnt have resistance from the gound on the middle of the chassi...?
Im not tryin show off here, just interested in knowing more about the lift kits, I think they do improve off road abilitys, maybe most of the people that say no straight away, only do the odd greenlane, but I use mine 80% of the time in Salisbury, and i think the lift kit does help.....
actually, due to the improved attack and departure angles I managed to make it where Im in the pic, buckshot, with his standard Defender, got stuck going down and the only way out was reverse...
And my mate with a standard disco was a real comparison no? afterall his was standard, mine wasnt...
and my tyres didnt rub anywhere
I believe the lift kit also improve ground clearence (yes, I know!not on the axles) between axles, meaning less chance of grounding out in the middle in certain ocasions
like my mate here with his standard disco... if it had a lift kit, then he wouldnt have resistance from the gound on the middle of the chassi...?
Im not tryin show off here, just interested in knowing more about the lift kits, I think they do improve off road abilitys, maybe most of the people that say no straight away, only do the odd greenlane, but I use mine 80% of the time in Salisbury, and i think the lift kit does help.....
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jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
if a liftis done right it will help 90 percent are not! I have a lift on my 90 and because I refuse to get wide amgle propshafts i have limited the travel of the axle. Limited articulation to less than standard because of 2 reasons. 1. The tyres i have fitted/wish to fit,
2. because i will not have uj's binding/tyres fowling body etc.
It will not look spectacular like your pic but its worth it because the locker in the back.
i have upset some blinged up motors inc lockered/simex full on challenge trucks at a local P&P because they tried to buy their way through the mud. My 90 is retiring from serious comps has been for a while now its not too far gone to be an offroad hack. I have my 80 inch for serious comps which is still being rebuilt. When its done I'll put it anywhere the next guy does. As for my 90 it is still a beast can do most things especially with the offroad tyres on but its got to earn its keep taking me around and mabe to Africa so I'm not destroying it anymore for the sake of not getting stuck. Been there got the dented roof sides wings etc etc for trying too beat others in single seat offroaders at comps. Think its time the old girl retired and got some miles under her belt.
2. because i will not have uj's binding/tyres fowling body etc.
It will not look spectacular like your pic but its worth it because the locker in the back.
i have upset some blinged up motors inc lockered/simex full on challenge trucks at a local P&P because they tried to buy their way through the mud. My 90 is retiring from serious comps has been for a while now its not too far gone to be an offroad hack. I have my 80 inch for serious comps which is still being rebuilt. When its done I'll put it anywhere the next guy does. As for my 90 it is still a beast can do most things especially with the offroad tyres on but its got to earn its keep taking me around and mabe to Africa so I'm not destroying it anymore for the sake of not getting stuck. Been there got the dented roof sides wings etc etc for trying too beat others in single seat offroaders at comps. Think its time the old girl retired and got some miles under her belt.
[JP]
New Member
ok, so a lift does help.
Was just trying to get to that point.
I think, even with a lift not done right, it would help in that situation on the 3rd picture with my mates discovery.
As its a straight approach to an obstacle.
But I know what you mean, a lift to be done properly has to be complemented by improvements to all the other parts that were designed and installed taking in consideration the standard suspension.
its the same as "upgrading" a recipe for a cake..
if the standard was 3 eggs, 100 ml of cream and 250ml of milk...
if you want to make it bigger you cant just do it with 6 eggs and leave the rest as it is, you also will have to use 200ml of cream and 500ml of milk...
Was just trying to get to that point.
I think, even with a lift not done right, it would help in that situation on the 3rd picture with my mates discovery.
As its a straight approach to an obstacle.
But I know what you mean, a lift to be done properly has to be complemented by improvements to all the other parts that were designed and installed taking in consideration the standard suspension.
its the same as "upgrading" a recipe for a cake..
if the standard was 3 eggs, 100 ml of cream and 250ml of milk...
if you want to make it bigger you cant just do it with 6 eggs and leave the rest as it is, you also will have to use 200ml of cream and 500ml of milk...
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jai_landrover
Well-Known Member
interesting way of putting it but yea i guess so. But to believe a lift will improve your offroad ability is not the case. Coupled with bigger tyres and all the crap you have to do to keep it good then it will improve your off road ability. A lift kit alone will do little or bugger all.
200tdi ayre
Well-Known Member
a lift will help alot more on a disco as it will increase the breakover entry and departure angles as discos have bigger overhangs and longer wheelbases so worse breakover angles than defenders , the only difference they will realymake on a defender is help the breakover angle a little, allow you to fit BIG tyres over 265/75/16 ish and give you the big look, if you want to improve your offroad prioformance your much better off investing in a good set of typs and a rear locker that will help much more
wiltshire landyman
I’m back
imo you could have all the lockers in the world fitted but if your wheels are hanging in the air due to lack of articulation then the lockers become useless..
imo keeping all 4 wheels intact with the ground is more important and more articulation is the only way to gain this..
lockers are fantastic and will be my next investment along with my current suspension setup,
imo keeping all 4 wheels intact with the ground is more important and more articulation is the only way to gain this..
lockers are fantastic and will be my next investment along with my current suspension setup,
