kg74 said:
I had a 1997 Land Cruiser - great vehicle. My wife managed to hit 3 of the 4 corners of the truck while parking. Too big. I traded it for an X5. My wife did not mangle any of the corners, but I got tired of it and traded it for an Lexus LX470. In 8 months my wife managed to mangle all four corners - way too big. The Lexus was traded in after 80k, a failed transmission and 4 mangled corners.

Just saying - the RR Sport is smaller.
Click to expand...
Just because 'your wife' can't drive doesn't mean his can't. ;) You ever thought of teaching the wife to use the mirrors? Parking by sound is fine when it is a towing hook making the sound but otherwise it's just poor skills.
I've never understood the excuse a car of any type being 'too big'. If someone doesn't know how to park or drive , they don't know how to park or drive , simples.
 
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kg74 said:
I am completely happy with my wife - I know she cannot drive - but I assure you that is a fault I would accept any day. She is now in a 2016 XC90 with front and rear cameras, auto park, alarms and all the fixings. See what I mean, a little technology and I have a great wife. Once driver-less cars come, I will have a perfect wife.
Click to expand...
People who need all that help to drive are the reason insurance premiums are so high. Heaven help everyone on the road with her if the gadgets fail :rolleyes: Like I said above, do her and everyone else a favour and teach her to drive properly.
Rant mode on: Not just a dig at your wife, so don't take this bit personally. The reason there are so many crap, self-involved, no thought for speed, distance, awareness of other traffic,drivers on the road is because too many expect to only have to turn the steering wheel ( not even that to park some) and have the car do the rest. Whilst some gadgets can be of help , others once again make people not take responsibility for their own actions. It also means we have sub-par drivers who have no idea what to do when the gadgets fail. :rant mode off
 
Whilst the performance of wives could be extremely interesting, I was hoping that this thread would throw up a bit more in the way of comparison of technical things. In looking for a sensible automatic 2004 or 5 4 x 4, I'm finding it difficult to judge what the least bad option might be.

Am I right to think that in Disco's the choice is between TD5 with dodgy chassis and TDv6 with dodgy engine, and that a L322 TD6 might be more reliable gamble apart from the underrated gearbox? Is it true they suffer from rust around the rear doors?
I know nothing about the Jap offerings and most round here seem to be manual. There's, for example, very little info about low range and difflock workings on the Jap vehicles.

I loved my Disco1, but the wife refused to go in it after I braked in he rain and the lining emptied down her neck. She likes the relative comfort of the emergency-buy Jeep GC (after Disco fire), but the gearbox doesn't work the way I want.

Is there anywhere on the net that has a real comparison between many different 4 x 4's?
 
Billaboard said:
Whilst the performance of wives could be extremely interesting, I was hoping that this thread would throw up a bit more in the way of comparison of technical things. In looking for a sensible automatic 2004 or 5 4 x 4, I'm finding it difficult to judge what the least bad option might be.

Am I right to think that in Disco's the choice is between TD5 with dodgy chassis and TDv6 with dodgy engine, and that a L322 TD6 might be more reliable gamble apart from the underrated gearbox? Is it true they suffer from rust around the rear doors?
I know nothing about the Jap offerings and most round here seem to be manual. There's, for example, very little info about low range and difflock workings on the Jap vehicles.

I loved my Disco1, but the wife refused to go in it after I braked in he rain and the lining emptied down her neck. She likes the relative comfort of the emergency-buy Jeep GC (after Disco fire), but the gearbox doesn't work the way I want.

Is there anywhere on the net that has a real comparison between many different 4 x 4's?
Click to expand...
All cars have issues. Go on the owner forum of any make or model and you'll see it's true. Even the lauded Toyota's are not 100% immune.

What is wrong with the Jeeps autobox?

And do you need diesel? How many miles a year are you doing?
 
300bhp/ton said:
All cars have issues. Go on the owner forum of any make or model and you'll see it's true. Even the lauded Toyota's are not 100% immune.

What is wrong with the Jeeps autobox?

And do you need diesel? How many miles a year are you doing?
Click to expand...

Thanks, and apologies for what will be a long winded reply.

Yes, I understand that all cars have issues, but it's surely worth knowing what to look for.

The Jeep autobox is difflocked in low range. Here's what I wrote in a Jeep forum where people were asking about difflock:
"
The reason I'm paranoid about low ratio and wind up is that I have had 2 manual LR110's and an auto Disco 1, and have in the past used them a lot to juggle my boat and other heavy boats into tight spots.

I either used to do this on my own, with the aid of a webcam pointing at the towhitch to a laptop on the passenger seat, or with others milling around very close waiting to wind jockey wheels and hook up.
In both cases, low ratio gave me a much greater feeling of safety and the ability to work precisely in places where there is usually a mixture of uneven grass and tarmac. Proper low-end (ie affordable) boatyards usually have a tractor for this work, but I suppose I have been using even cheaper places.

Currently, because of family pressure, I'm spending a fortune on a marina space and normal ratio is fine on the hard standing there but, when the boat's in the water, I do have to bring the heavy, 4 LandRover wheeled trailer to my son's house where juggling it onto rough ground between trees from a tight driveway involves what my sons refer to as my Austin Powers 30-point turn.

All the tests I've done, mainly in a decrepit local car park, have led to my WJ Quadra-Trak winding up in low ratio, then suddenly a wheel will lose grip with a bang. I'm sure this is fine for green-laning and the snows of America, but I don't want any jerky movements while my son's fingers are anywhere near towbars. I don't think normal caravanners etc would find this a problem.

I and SWMBO do like the Jeep and we are currently using it as the daily drive, but I wish I'd known about how low ratio worked before I bought it."

Re Diesel, I just like diesel. But also the 4 x 4 serves also as backup transport for people we care for. This involves repetitive tiny distances interspersed with long waits. In business I used a petrol auto Omega - 40mpg motorway, but with the OAP's 7 - 9 mpg because it was always "full choke". The Disco1 diesel auto did about 19mpg in the same use. I don't go along with this diesel for high mileages stuff.

This raises the question - Will a 2004/5 L322 have a dpf? I hope not.
 
Hi All,

Thanks to every one who gave interesting replies on the FFRR and the RRS

I think there is a good argument for going for petrol.
They seem to have covered less miles as opposed to a diesel of same age.
The reliability of a petrol seems to be better than a diesel.

Like I said earlier in this thread, she does about 10 miles a day to work and back.
Weekend we tend to use my Lexus.

So from about 2006 to 2008, there seems to be 2 petrol engines.
A 4,4L and a 4,2L

Am I right so far ?

Gra
 
Yes, the 4.4 is naturally aspirated, the 4.2 is Supercharged, both are the Jaguar AJ8.

I believe the 4.4 was dropped in 2007 due to low demand.
 
Billaboard said:
Thanks, and apologies for what will be a long winded reply.

Yes, I understand that all cars have issues, but it's surely worth knowing what to look for.

The Jeep autobox is difflocked in low range. Here's what I wrote in a Jeep forum where people were asking about difflock:
"
The reason I'm paranoid about low ratio and wind up is that I have had 2 manual LR110's and an auto Disco 1, and have in the past used them a lot to juggle my boat and other heavy boats into tight spots.

I either used to do this on my own, with the aid of a webcam pointing at the towhitch to a laptop on the passenger seat, or with others milling around very close waiting to wind jockey wheels and hook up.
In both cases, low ratio gave me a much greater feeling of safety and the ability to work precisely in places where there is usually a mixture of uneven grass and tarmac. Proper low-end (ie affordable) boatyards usually have a tractor for this work, but I suppose I have been using even cheaper places.

Currently, because of family pressure, I'm spending a fortune on a marina space and normal ratio is fine on the hard standing there but, when the boat's in the water, I do have to bring the heavy, 4 LandRover wheeled trailer to my son's house where juggling it onto rough ground between trees from a tight driveway involves what my sons refer to as my Austin Powers 30-point turn.

All the tests I've done, mainly in a decrepit local car park, have led to my WJ Quadra-Trak winding up in low ratio, then suddenly a wheel will lose grip with a bang. I'm sure this is fine for green-laning and the snows of America, but I don't want any jerky movements while my son's fingers are anywhere near towbars. I don't think normal caravanners etc would find this a problem.

I and SWMBO do like the Jeep and we are currently using it as the daily drive, but I wish I'd known about how low ratio worked before I bought it."

Re Diesel, I just like diesel. But also the 4 x 4 serves also as backup transport for people we care for. This involves repetitive tiny distances interspersed with long waits. In business I used a petrol auto Omega - 40mpg motorway, but with the OAP's 7 - 9 mpg because it was always "full choke". The Disco1 diesel auto did about 19mpg in the same use. I don't go along with this diesel for high mileages stuff.

This raises the question - Will a 2004/5 L322 have a dpf? I hope not.
Click to expand...
Right. I have seen your question before :)

Yep very few vehicles offer low range and centre diff lock control independently.

A tidy D2 would be a good choice. As most have open diffs and rely on TCS. If it's slippery you may fine it more effort than a D1 however. As you have to get the wheels spinning to make the TCS work. Plenty of tidy ones about still. And it's super easy to check the chassis.

Personally if you want a tow vehicle a TD6 L322 probably isn't the best choice. Not that it can't tow well. It can. But the gearbox is boarderline on the torque specs. Nearly all have had rebuilds, some multiple times. Event ones that don't tow. Great vehicles. Personally a 4.4 BMW engine V8 would be my pick at this age. Loads more grunt than the TD6 and you can run them on LPG. And a stronger gearbox.

Early BMW engine L322's use a viscous centre diff. So never lock up. But will always send power to the wheels. Jaguar and PSA engine L322's and all D3's, D4's and L320 RRS use a locking centre diff that is electronically controlled and can vary its lock up, but it is all auto controlled by the Terrain Response system. I suspect both systems would work equally well, but the viscous one is probably slightly better for your use.

If you are looking at D2's you might want to consider p38's too. As they are a similar age. Like the early L322, p38's also use a vicious coupling for the centre diff. And seem to be quite a bargain price wise compared to D2's.
 
uk_vette said:
Hi All,

Thanks to every one who gave interesting replies on the FFRR and the RRS

I think there is a good argument for going for petrol.
They seem to have covered less miles as opposed to a diesel of same age.
The reliability of a petrol seems to be better than a diesel.

Like I said earlier in this thread, she does about 10 miles a day to work and back.
Weekend we tend to use my Lexus.

So from about 2006 to 2008, there seems to be 2 petrol engines.
A 4,4L and a 4,2L

Am I right so far ?

Gra
Click to expand...
Looking at that I would hand on heart point you in the direction of anything but Range Rover, full fat or sport. Very few larger vehs like little hops and RR is no exception. In fact, they REALLY don't. A lot of the issues I have had ref battery have all come from the fact that since retiring, I do very few proper journeys and the Golden Girl has let me know her feelings on that. They are chock full of electrickery and like a nice full to over-flowing battery to keep the electrickery fed. Short hops will soon have you on first name terms with the battery sales person.
Although, I'm sure someone will be able to tell you about solar/trickle or other top up chargers, that may help.
 
Not sure I can agree with the short journey and battery issues. Sure if you have an old duff battery to begin with. But a good one should be fine more than likely.

It's not as if Land Rover have only sold a handful or Range Rovers, RR Sports or Disco 3/4's over the past 15 years. They've sold hundreds of thousands.
 
Just for the record and to be a bit pedantic, Jeeps like mine are notorious for low batteries causing all sorts of seemingly unrelated weird faults.

Mine had stood for about a year in a yard. A new battery got it started, but getting everything battery related back to normal took months, so I think I'd be OK on the battery front.

WRT my looking at L322's, there seem to be a few '03 and '04's around here, but hardly any D2's of that vintage, and the one I've seen is listed at what I think is a silly price. The love of my life doesn't want me to pay a thousand or two to move from a '54 GC to a W-reg Disco.
 
I am actually looking at a 2004 FFRR Vogue. 4,4 L.
Little older than I planned, but looks good condition.

121,000 miles.
MOT history shows mostly passes, with 3 fails, for tyres, suspension anti roll bar rubbers, and some thing else, can't remember.

In a dark blue, looks good, no dents or dings that I can see, few scratches, that may T cut out and polish,

Gra.
 
I've always admitted to being a purist BUT someone has done a lovely job of that conversion. It's almost seamless.
 
Hi all,
Thanks for the many replies.
We have looked at RRS, and the FFRR, in both petrol and diesel.
Looked at 2 Jeeps, both 3 liter diesel v6.
Then we looked st an ML320. Diesel.


I have to say the ML was the best.
We have set upon looking for a ML350 petrol, about a 2007 to 2009. In Black.
The preference is the facelift, with the reshaped front headlights, which are sculptured at the bottom edge.

Graham
 
uk_vette said:
Hi all,
Thanks for the many replies.
We have looked at RRS, and the FFRR, in both petrol and diesel.
Looked at 2 Jeeps, both 3 liter diesel v6.
Then we looked st an ML320. Diesel.


I have to say the ML was the best.
We have set upon looking for a ML350 petrol, about a 2007 to 2009. In Black.
The preference is the facelift, with the reshaped front headlights, which are sculptured at the bottom edge.

Graham
Click to expand...

Glad to see you found something that you like. I will admit, I too looked at all kinds of 4x4 before the FFRR won. I looked at the ML, the humvee, the x5, the LC and others. The reason most were rejected was leg room, otherwise I may have gone with a different marque. Finally my heart got what it wanted. Mainly because the L322 was slightly better on leg room, could still use just a tiny bit more but was much better than the others ( especially the Japanese ones) and it was the one I truly liked. Looking at the others had just been because checking more than one is the right thing to do.
So enjoy your ML and happy motoring :)
 
kg74 said:
I am completely happy with my wife - I know she cannot drive - but I assure you that is a fault I would accept any day. She is now in a 2016 XC90 with front and rear cameras, auto park, alarms and all the fixings. See what I mean, a little technology and I have a great wife. Once driver-less cars come, I will have a perfect wife.
Click to expand...
That beast has not been made yet, and I don't mean driver -less cars. :D
 
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