SouthYorks
Member
Cheers buddy , not my issue though.
Repeatedly tried loosening part 1 of the tool. Makes 0 difference .
Repeatedly tried loosening part 1 of the tool. Makes 0 difference .
SouthYorks
Member
Update for anyone following
After failing to fit the LR tool part 2 .
Removed LR tool part 1
And tried to insert & screw part 2 in
Succes .. part 2 does screw in without part 1.
Now I'm assuming this is because my pump shaft is actually bent / misaligned
( a result of trying to undo my crankshaft pulley bolt with a impact gun & no locking tool ) And therfore it simply won't align while part 1 is inserted.
Assumptions on assumptions here but it makes sence.
Anyway being left with simply no alternative
I decided to remove the pump without LR tool part 1 .
Inserted part 2 and Tightened bolt to make contact with pump shaft ..succes it popped off.
Short lived succes though as the sprocket has moved and now clearly doesn't align.
I've tried to realign it and fit part 1 which holds the socket in place but without succes.
See attached picture of current alightnlment
I figure I'm into buying a new pump at this point and trying to fit it with the hopes it will pull itself into alignment. Any thoughts more than welcome
After failing to fit the LR tool part 2 .
Removed LR tool part 1
And tried to insert & screw part 2 in
Succes .. part 2 does screw in without part 1.
Now I'm assuming this is because my pump shaft is actually bent / misaligned
( a result of trying to undo my crankshaft pulley bolt with a impact gun & no locking tool ) And therfore it simply won't align while part 1 is inserted.
Assumptions on assumptions here but it makes sence.
Anyway being left with simply no alternative
I decided to remove the pump without LR tool part 1 .
Inserted part 2 and Tightened bolt to make contact with pump shaft ..succes it popped off.
Short lived succes though as the sprocket has moved and now clearly doesn't align.
I've tried to realign it and fit part 1 which holds the socket in place but without succes.
See attached picture of current alightnlment
I figure I'm into buying a new pump at this point and trying to fit it with the hopes it will pull itself into alignment. Any thoughts more than welcome
SouthYorks
Member
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Oh dear.
Sorry to be bearer of bad news, the reason the HP pulley has moved is due to tension on timing chain and valve springs etc.
You may be able to pull it back into line, but not without the tool fitting. Do you know why the tool didn't fit? Is the pump bent?
If that pulley moves too much you could loose timing which is a pig of a job as the timing chain cover cannot be removed without taking the cylinder head off. Hidden bolt !!
Also, never should you use an impact wrench on a TD4 fragile cast iron crankshaft, the crankshaft generally breaks just behind the oil seal inside the engine if you do.
Sorry to be bearer of bad news, the reason the HP pulley has moved is due to tension on timing chain and valve springs etc.
You may be able to pull it back into line, but not without the tool fitting. Do you know why the tool didn't fit? Is the pump bent?
If that pulley moves too much you could loose timing which is a pig of a job as the timing chain cover cannot be removed without taking the cylinder head off. Hidden bolt !!
Also, never should you use an impact wrench on a TD4 fragile cast iron crankshaft, the crankshaft generally breaks just behind the oil seal inside the engine if you do.
SouthYorks
Member
Aye i feared as much but I'm going to give it a shot anyway, running on hopes and dreams, Where's there's a will there's a way and all that other b*ll*cks .
Still no idea why the tool wouldn't work other than the pump being bent itself? This fuel pump leak started immediately after I completed my crankshaft pulley so must be responsible . I firstly tried a blowtorch and a very powerful 1/2 gun
2000 nm breakaway ... never worked and in the end I used a 3/4 inch breaker bar set and 4ft pole . So I'm putting it down to the impact gun
don't follow youtube vids I guess guys
Still no idea why the tool wouldn't work other than the pump being bent itself? This fuel pump leak started immediately after I completed my crankshaft pulley so must be responsible . I firstly tried a blowtorch and a very powerful 1/2 gun
2000 nm breakaway ... never worked and in the end I used a 3/4 inch breaker bar set and 4ft pole . So I'm putting it down to the impact gun
don't follow youtube vids I guess guys
Arctic2
Well-Known Member
I would say it is virtually impossible to to bend the tapered end on the HPFP, the damage or fault as now occurred so as you say you now need to find a solution to realign the sprocket if that is at possible, the tool should not be used without part one, lesson here for other do not do it.
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Maybe try a round bar inside the cog to lift it while trying to add the part 1 of the special tool ?
Maybe try a round bar inside the cog to lift it while trying to add the part 1 of the special tool ?
SouthYorks
Member
Aye had a go earlier with no luck , ideally need a second set of hands to screw part 1 in as I manoeuvre it . Could this be the fault of the tool ? Cheap ÂĢ17 for a set of 2 m47 & m57 . Still find it far too coincidental that the pump started to leak the second I did the crankshaft pulley .I would say it is virtually impossible to to bend the tapered end on the HPFP, the damage or fault as now occurred so as you say you now need to find a solution to realign the sprocket if that is at possible, the tool should not be used without part one, lesson here for other do not do it.
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Maybe try a round bar inside the cog to lift it while trying to add the part 1 of the special tool ?
Will you yous all posted on the sh*t show
Alteredtech
Well-Known Member
There is a warning on the workshop manual, that you should never remove the tool ( that keep the timing chain gear in place ) before installing the pump.
Once the gear is not maintained it will fall, there is no way to put it back in place.
I fear that your only solution is to remove the timing chain cover ... and puting back the new pump in place.
Can be done without removing the engine, but you will have very little place to do the work.
You will certainly need a timing chain kit ...
Once you get there you can inspect the timing chain, the guides, the oil pump ...
Better the put a new sealing on the sump, not only on timing chain cover.
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andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Thinking about this, the automatic timing chain tensioner will probably have ratcheted to.tighten the chain and so lifting the cog now will be impossible.
Not sure if you can release the tensioner without timing cover off. Timing cover off requires head off.
Unless someone knows different !!
Not sure if you can release the tensioner without timing cover off. Timing cover off requires head off.
Unless someone knows different !!
SouthYorks
Member
Thanks again lads always appreciate it!
I have heard of this exact same horror story happening at BT garage .. transit fuel pump removed without tool and realined again.
Fingers crossed
Thankfully it's not fallen much as such and more cockled. I did use half of the specalist tool (other half simply would not fit so was left with no choice ) as a result it's caught itself on LR 12 178 part 2. There is also some movement in said sprocket .. so it's not immovable.
I have heard of this exact same horror story happening at BT garage .. transit fuel pump removed without tool and realined again.
Fingers crossed
SouthYorks
Member
Yeah super sujestion matey , my brother sujested the same solution but I still currently haven't located the tensioner or if its accessible ! Again fingers crossed
Update on the cause of this is the bearing failing in the fuel pump , which has caused the fuel pump shaft to sit out of line .
So not necessarily bent shaft but the same outcome.
If anyone has this problem , there is no fitting the tool! You either scrap the car or continue with the madness unfolding here I guess
SouthYorks
Member
Quick thought, only way round this without following my madness ...if your unlucky enough to experience this, get a grinder on the specialist tool which would give you some extra wiggle room 
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Looks like tensioner is just spring and hydraulic pressure so should push back without having to access it. RAVE manual refers.
I have a spare tensioner in the workshop, will double check it pushes in tomorrow!!
I have a spare tensioner in the workshop, will double check it pushes in tomorrow!!
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
So here's an idea.
Find a hollow tube that will just fit into the cog. Fit to outside of engine. Lift or get a length of wood under the tube (or drill a hole to suit) and jack it up to get pulley central.
Slam the hp pump into position putting the tapered shaft into the tube. When it enters the tube, a shove and push tube out to be replaced by the hp pump shaft.
Worth buying some tube the right size to save your engine.
Find a hollow tube that will just fit into the cog. Fit to outside of engine. Lift or get a length of wood under the tube (or drill a hole to suit) and jack it up to get pulley central.
Slam the hp pump into position putting the tapered shaft into the tube. When it enters the tube, a shove and push tube out to be replaced by the hp pump shaft.
Worth buying some tube the right size to save your engine.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
If you want a good low mileage pump PM me.
SouthYorks
Member
Knight in shining armour you matey
Can't thank ya enough for your help!
Certainly give this a go at the weekend , Got my brother coming round so am hopeful we can ger it sorted.
I'll shamefully admit I've tried alsorts out there already, had a skipping rope threaded through the entire assembly last week trying to pull it into position ..couldn't quite do it on my own though .
I'll update to let you all know which crazy method worked for me
Thanks again tho Andy may well message ya about the pump ! Thanks !!
Arctic2
Well-Known Member
The tensioner can be held back by inserting a pin/nail but as above the cover needs to be removed.
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A tube about 3" /4" long the same diameter as the first part of the specialist tool might work, it would fit over part 2 and maybe level it for you ?
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Because there would be no thread it may lift into place for you ?
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A tube about 3" /4" long the same diameter as the first part of the specialist tool might work, it would fit over part 2 and maybe level it for you ?
Because there would be no thread it may lift into place for you ?
SouthYorks
Member
New Fuel pump arrived and has been successfully fitted hallelujah 
Absolute dream to fit.. no need for bars or skipping rope. Used the specialist tool including the bolt (part 2 &3) to move the sprocket and once moved and held in place by hand the fuel pump slid in with little reresistance.
Once in, I decided to retry the tool to see if it would now work ..
Low and behold it did., all parts fitted smoothly. So confirmation the fuel pump bearing had collapsed. If you have this issue the special tool wont fit as instructed so lock up the bottom end and push out your fuel pump with specialist tool part 2&3 .. no need for part 1 in my book .
Then replace .
Special thanks to @andyfreelandy for all the help and supplying the fuel pump!
And also a special thanks to the motto 'Where there's a will there's a way '
Absolute dream to fit.. no need for bars or skipping rope. Used the specialist tool including the bolt (part 2 &3) to move the sprocket and once moved and held in place by hand the fuel pump slid in with little reresistance.
Once in, I decided to retry the tool to see if it would now work ..
Low and behold it did., all parts fitted smoothly. So confirmation the fuel pump bearing had collapsed. If you have this issue the special tool wont fit as instructed so lock up the bottom end and push out your fuel pump with specialist tool part 2&3 .. no need for part 1 in my book .
Then replace .
Special thanks to @andyfreelandy for all the help and supplying the fuel pump!
And also a special thanks to the motto 'Where there's a will there's a way '
SouthYorks
Member
Feel like we pioneered some new territory here today lads
If there's any medals going get us in the running !
If there's any medals going get us in the running !
