hovismon

hovismon

Member
So, just failed the MOT. After all the work I put into it.
One of the fails was the handbrake, I got a figure of 15% on the machine, the pass is 16% or above. I can't moan about that, it's there in black and white. However, the Examiner also said there wasn't much play with my handbrake lever. Isn't this the case with all Hippos though? My lever only pulls up 2 clicks unless you're Charles Atlas. I've replaced my rear shoes and stuff in the past and adjusted the handbrake as best I could, and it's passed the last two MOTs with it.
Did I just get a ****er of a tester who, because I "spoke back to him" and told him this, to which he replied he'd tested a few Freelanders and they weren't like this, decided he's fail me anyway? He also failed me as the rear brake pipes weren't clean enough, but also added that if there was any pitting at all to be found on them, they'd need replaced.
Am I just whinging?
Are Hippo handbrakes hard to pull up anyway?
I'm off to mope about for a while......
 
The hand brake in mine feels reasonably 'progressive'. If you play this video from the weekend, at 1:30 you can hear my hand brake going on - quite a few clicks. Also at 4:30.

 
How did the MOT tester, test the handbrake?

Your handbrake could be set up incorrectly. If the cables have been adjusted to be too short, the HB performance is reduced. The HB cables need to be loosened so there's some slack. Then the lever needs pulling up lots of times, to adjust the shoes correctly. If they don't adjust with the HB lever, then the adjuster wheel can be turned manually, through the hole in the back plate. Once the shoes are set correctly, the HB cables can be re-adjusted to take out the slack.
 
Yep well, that's a few clicks more than I've ever achieved GrumpyGel. So it can be done..... Bugger.

They use a rolling road setup over here Nodge, He sits in the driver seat and me in the passenger seat and he tries all the brakes in turn, and a big screen gives all the values for each brake, force, balance % etc. He just gave a big pull on the handbrake lever, like I do, and get about 1 or 2 clicks, but as I said I've passed the last two MOTs with this lever.

I did replace the rear shoes 2 years ago, although when I saw them they didn't really need replacing, but it did sort of free up the workings within the drums which then had the slack taken up by pulling the h/b lever a few times. I also checked and adjusted the cables just behind the lever, by removing the cubby box, so that I was getting the best performance possible of hold versus amount of pull on the lever. I've never had a nice spongey feel to pulling the h/b lever like I get in other cars, but I just assumed this was normal Freelander. In fact I think someone back then said the same on some forum or another so I believed it. And it passed twice with the way it's set.

I'm thinking maybe the shoes or adjuster has gummed up some in the drums for starters, I'll have a wee look tomorrow if it's dry.

Also failed on the n/s track rod end having excessive movement which is ok I suppose, and it failed on the rear brake pipes being not clean enough. Now I know the underneath needs to be clean, but I've spend a fair bit of time under the hippo recently and I've powerwashed it a lot, so I'm a wee bit uncomfortable with the claim, especially as it says I need to replace the pipes IF, yes IF they "show signs of pitting".

Did I get a tester who didn't get his hole the previous night?
 
I'm usually quite philosophical about it though, I use the MOT test to highlight things I need to fix rather than guessing. I've no qualms usually but this bloke seemed to be nit-picking.
 
tbh, I don't think he should test Freelander brakes on a rolling road. It might damage the transmission and the other wheels might interfere with the result.
 
Having a HB lever adjusted to tight, stops the rear shoes from self-adjusting;) There MUST be some slack in the cables, or the catch never moves enough to turn the adjuster wheel.
 
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Reaching back into the corners of my mind .. I used to be a main dealer service manager and when we tested PERMANENT 4 wheel drive we had to take it out on the road and use a Tapley meter.
One of these things..
brake-meters.jpg

Otherwise the front / back wheels would affect the test rollers and how they read the result.
Now the Freelander has a central coupling which SHOULD allow testing to be done as normal. In theory.
But the system is still PERMANENT 4 wheel drive. So it should have been tested on the road with a Tapley or put on a brake tester plate system.
Personally , in my opinion, he is being a dick. Brake pipe corrosion is a subjective matter, its not as simple as it 'having ANY pitting, its a fail'. Cobblers!
In teh good old days you would have a local VOSA / MOT station you could talk to and get advice. But they've now all gone (mostly).
You can now though fill in an onine form here, "https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/problems-with-your-test-result" , and make a compiant.
I dont know what the procedure is these days as I was last in the trade about 20 years ago!
 
Flying Scotsman! said:
Reaching back into the corners of my mind .. I used to be a main dealer service manager and when we tested PERMANENT 4 wheel drive we had to take it out on the road and use a Tapley meter.
One of these things..
brake-meters.jpg

Otherwise the front / back wheels would affect the test rollers and how they read the result.
Now the Freelander has a central coupling which SHOULD allow testing to be done as normal. In theory.
But the system is still PERMANENT 4 wheel drive. So it should have been tested on the road with a Tapley or put on a brake tester plate system.
Personally , in my opinion, he is being a dick. Brake pipe corrosion is a subjective matter, its not as simple as it 'having ANY pitting, its a fail'. Cobblers!
In teh good old days you would have a local VOSA / MOT station you could talk to and get advice. But they've now all gone (mostly).
You can now though fill in an onine form here, "https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/problems-with-your-test-result" , and make a compiant.
I dont know what the procedure is these days as I was last in the trade about 20 years ago!
Click to expand...
Different setup in testing stations in NI.

The LR guidance is that its a no-no to test brakes on a 2 wheel rolling road unless you first remove the props, but a 4 wheel rolling road that runs the wheels at the same speeds is OK.

So if you don't have a 4 wheel rolling road - then yeh, one of those accelerometers, or what ever they are, is needed - or a "yeh she's good" observation !
 
That's very interesting, the 2-wheel, 4-wheel bit. It's tested on a 2-wheel set of rollers but it makes sense that the freelander's drive system doesn't fully suit.

I'm not going to complain, although I can't say I won't still moan....

Firstly I'm going to check the handbrake system from head to toe as GrumpyGel's video above shows there may be something not quite right with my hippo. If it can work better then I'll make it work better. I'm just in the middle of removing both rear drums, both look absolutely fine and quite clean inside, but I could have a missing pin, which holds the shoes to the back plate. I've not had a big search yet for it, but the retaining clip was free when the drum came off. I'm hoping this is a fault as it gives me something to work on!

She also failed on nsf track rod end, but again, I'll change it anyway. Is this one of those areas where it's preferable to replace both sides at the same time?

As for the brake piping, there's the slightest amount of surface rust, easily brushed off. I honestly don't think the pipes are anywhere near bad enough to have to replace. What I'm going to do is ignore the re-test and just book another full test, after I sort the handbrake and TRE, but book it at a different test centre. Although, I don't know if my fails are stored on some kind of database. Any in NI know?
 
The Freelander is regarded as a permanent 4WD. This means that a Tapley gauge is required, according to LR. The problem with the 2 roller test. Is an amount of drag will be present across the VCU. This will add a huge amount of inaccuracy to the test, and possibly damage the 4X4 system too, although unlikely for a short test.
 
Dunno about NI, but I'm sure failure reasons are put on a central computer here and another station can see them.
 
I've seen 5 or 6 Freelander MoTs in my time, and they've all been done with the Tapley. According to the (Land Rover enthusiast) old boy who does them, if the rolling road is used, the test has not been done properly.

You just need to do my standard handbrake adjust procedure - nothing to worry about.

1. Remove centre console and slacken off handbrake cable.
2. Jack up and remove rear wheels.
3. Remove drums and scuff the drum lining and shoe surfaces with 120 grit emery cloth.
4. Replace drums. Work brake pedal and handbrake to re-centre shoes.
5. Click adjusters until drums are seized, then back off until drums turn with slight drag.
6. Replace wheels, then adjust handbrake lever so it has about 4-5 clicks of movement. Check it operates and releases properly.
7. Let car down and torque up wheel nuts.

I've never had much luck with the Rave procedure, which relies on the self-adjusters.

Because your handbrake is so poor, I'd be looking for contaminated brake linings. All will be revealed when you pull the drums off, anyway.
 
Thanks for this guineafowl, very helpful indeed.

I do have the drums off, I've taken the shoes off and cleaned and oiled the adjusters. As I said, the insides of the drums are pretty good, I only changed the shoes a year ago. Although, when I did take the drums off, the driver's side had a loose clip fall out, and a missing pin. I did locate the pin down the back of the backing plate so I'm not sure if it just came out when removing the drums or was it loose the whole time. One thing though, the pins do look they could do with renewal, that way I'll have less doubt of them failing.

Rain stopped play today unfortunately but maybe just as well as I'll follow those steps above. One query though, step 5, do you mean pull the handbrake until drums are seized, or do you mean work at the adjuster ratchet thingy with a screwdriver from the back of the backing plate?
 
hovismon said:
Thanks for this guineafowl, very helpful indeed.

I do have the drums off, I've taken the shoes off and cleaned and oiled the adjusters. As I said, the insides of the drums are pretty good, I only changed the shoes a year ago. Although, when I did take the drums off, the driver's side had a loose clip fall out, and a missing pin. I did locate the pin down the back of the backing plate so I'm not sure if it just came out when removing the drums or was it loose the whole time. One thing though, the pins do look they could do with renewal, that way I'll have less doubt of them failing.

Rain stopped play today unfortunately but maybe just as well as I'll follow those steps above. One query though, step 5, do you mean pull the handbrake until drums are seized, or do you mean work at the adjuster ratchet thingy with a screwdriver from the back of the backing plate?
Click to expand...
Click the adjusters with a screwdriver. I would get some new shoe retaining pins - one of mine fell out and jammed the drum. I got mine from Island 4x4, only Sh!tpart but they've lasted OK with a good coat of copper grease.
 
The testers in NI use a split roller that rotates the wheels in opposite directions and they test one wheel at a time so they don't harm the 4wd. Not sure what would happen if you'd fitted a limited slip diff though. They also wrench pretty hard on the handbrake so yours must have been poor. Have you checked for leaky slaves or sticky cables?
As for the clips and springs there are kits available to replace them on eBay. Just make sure you order the correct ones unlike someone I know. :oops:
 
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Yeah he gave the handbrake a right tug, and it scored 15%, pass was 16%.

The thing worrying me is that I can't find any problems at all with the system. Cables are moving freely, no leaks, no gunge inside the drums, good shoes etc. Only a possible loose retaining pin is the worst fault I've found. I really really hope it's that because I am stumped to what else could be wrong. I'll get new pins and clips tomorrow and try putting everything back together using the steps above. If I still have a dodgy handbrake after all that then I'm gonna bate all round me... ;)
 
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