The Docmeister · Jul 25, 2015

Just picked up a second Freelander 1.8 86k miles for peanuts, was losing coolant although loads of paperwork going back years showing proper servicing and hg replaced a couple of years ago.
Inlet manifold gasket & squealing waterproof were suspects.
Did the gasket, put in a new thermostat, moved on to the waterpump and removed plugs to make aligning the timing marks easier. Decided to check compressions whilst the plugs were out and got 220 psi on cylinders 1 & 4, but no reading at all on 2 & 3.
Seems a bit odd that I'm getting no reading at all.
The coolant bottle is slightly 'greasy' and there were a couple of small gunky lumps came out when I had the top and bottom hoses off and flushed, but nothing horrendous - so I put it down to leftover gunge from the last head gasket job.
The car itself was happy to sit at 60mph on the way home and didn't feel at all down on power.
So, try for another set of compression readings (with plugs back in the three cylinders not being tested?),bite the bullet and whip the head off right now, or is there something I'm missing?

freelance · Jul 25, 2015

Do another com test with a little oil injected first

Nodge68 · Jul 26, 2015

220 psi is higher than I'd expect to see. 170 to 190 is more normal.
A compression test should be conducted with all plugs removed.

Alibro · Jul 27, 2015

Are you sure you have the cam pulleys on correctly? I made the mistake of putting the exhaust pulley on with the little spiggot in the centre at the inlet mark. Car wouldn't start and I suspect I would have got erroneous compression readings too.
I didn't even notice they could be fitted wrong until I read up on it and checked.

This is a library photo but shows the pin thing in the middle I'm talking about. Very common mistake apparently, Not just me being stupid. Honest gov'.

The Docmeister · Jul 30, 2015

Not had a chance to get back to it this week - maybe tomorrow...
Haven’t had anything apart that would change timings and had the cam locking tool in place before I decided to try the compressions. Had a bit of shoogling to do to get that back out, but wouldn't have thought it'd knocked the timing out!
If the head had been skimmed last time, would that increase the readings? Possibly not by 30psi I suppose.
Thanks for the replies.

Nodge68 · Jul 30, 2015

Compression can increase with a head skim but not by 30+ PSI. Unless far to much was removed.
I also thought about the cam timing. It would seem prudent to check it at least

The Docmeister · Sep 22, 2015

OK, so it's been a while on this one, but I got some 'play time' at the weekend there!

Head gasket replaced, new waterpump, all belts and timing belt tensioner, thermostat replaced and all back together with the help of a 'friend of a friend' who supposedly knows his way about an MGF and timed up as per the factory timing marks.

Now it'll start reluctantly, doesn't want to idle but will rev and pull OK after around 2000revs. Still feels to me like timing.

MAP sensor came up as a fault on his generic diagnostic thing, so swapped that for a known good one, cleared faults and drove it to work thinking a wee blast might clear out the cobwebs. No better.
Had the CAT off to check it hadn't collapsed giving too much back pressure - it's old, but could still see daylight when I looked through. Still, it had struggled with emissions for the last few MOTs so a new Bosal one on its way.
Replaced the distributor cap and rotor arm with new and swapped the HT leads for some known good ones. Starts a bit better but still won't idle.
Stuck my new Hawkeye on it and got two faults: Failure to sync when running and CPS.
Stuck on a new CPS, faults clear, still won't idle and needs throttle blipped constantly to stop it cutting out.
Getting the occasional backfire on starting up and plenty of petrol getting through.

To recap, replaced all ignition service items (except plugs I suppose, hmm....) and CPS for new items and tried an alternative MAP sensor. Checked the CAT was clear - exhaust after the CAT was recently replaced, all timed to factory spec (as opposed to the 90' out that it looked to be at the start of all this!)

Will go and try replacement plugs this morning, but running out of ideas...

The Docmeister · Sep 22, 2015

Compression can increase with a head skim but not by 30+ PSI. Unless far to much was removed.

The head has been significantly skimmmed, I very much doubt you'd get another one out of it. But, it was running OK previously and had one ML gasket swapped for another so compression ratio shouldn't have changed much during the gasket change.

B34R · Sep 22, 2015

Daft question, but you've not swapped the intake and exhaust cam shafts have you?

Don't know if they fit/cross over at all.

The Docmeister · Sep 22, 2015

No, the cams stayed in the head.
Gasket was actually not in too bad nick and the head was fine using a steel rule. Only reason I went the whole hog with the head gasket change was the "90' out" timing that it seemed to have when I went to change the water pump

...

B34R · Sep 22, 2015

Maybe it's dropped valves or something, but I'd be expecting it to be making a lot of noise about it.
Does it run really smooth at idle or is it running like a three legged dog?

The Docmeister · Sep 22, 2015

Running a bit on the noisy side I must admit, certainly not smoothly. That's what was making me think that there is a timing issue, but I suppose damaged valves could be giving similar symptoms.
Not had a chance today to do anything else tbh, but the new CAT arrived. Working just now so it'll be tomorrow again before I get a look at it...
There weren't any signs of contact on the piston tops or valve heads when it was apart, but another compression test wouldn't hurt.Thinking it's probably worth changing the fuel filter too.
Thanks for the input.

Alibro · Sep 22, 2015

Don't suppose you set the head down with the plugs still in? Happened to another member who knocked a plug gap down to nowt.
Also double check the timing as very easy to get one tooth out. You need a good mirror on a handle to see it properly.

Alibro · Sep 23, 2015

B34R said:
Daft question, but you've not swapped the intake and exhaust cam shafts have you?

Don't know if they fit/cross over at all.

They're identical so can be swapped without any problems. You just need to make sure the spiggot i mentioned in my first post is in the correct position depending on if the pulley is on the exhaust cam or inlet cam.

The Docmeister · Sep 23, 2015

Plugs were out, but I'll be swapping them in the morning anyway - they're the last part of the ignition that's not been replaced.
Timing cover off too to check those cam sprockets. They stayed on the cams, but I didn't check them personally so will have a good look.
Is it possible that the timing mark on the bottom pulley could be wrong? Is it part of the pulley itself or on a separate disc that could potentially move? I took it off and replaced it as one piece, but it's all been apart before and was definitely pointing 90' out when I took it off this time and back to factory marking when we put it all back together.

B34R · Sep 23, 2015

Alibro said:
They're identical so can be swapped without any problems. You just need to make sure the spiggot i mentioned in my first post is in the correct position depending on if the pulley is on the exhaust cam or inlet cam.

Hurr! Interesting, quick question though, if they're identical why do they have different part numbers?

Inlet: LGC106950L
Exhaust: LGC106960L

Just Rover screwing around with part numbers or allowing for performance variants?

Alibro · Sep 23, 2015

B34R said:
Hurr! Interesting, quick question though, if they're identical why do they have different part numbers?

Inlet: LGC106950L
Exhaust: LGC106960L

Just Rover screwing around with part numbers or allowing for performance variants?

Good question, no idea as my previous statement was based on a quick look and lots of assumptions, so i could be wrong
As for the bottom pulley, it is keyed so can't really be wrong. Just make sure it is at the correct mark and all should be fine. When i replaced my timing belt it took me two or three goes to get the two pulleys lined up. It's very easy to be one tooth out.
BTW use clothes pegs to hold the belt in place around the pulleys as you refit it.

teddywood1 · Sep 23, 2015

my wife's car has seemed lumpy for a while and she also had a water leek fearing the worst I had a look and decided that the water pump was leaking by the stains all around it from the antifreeze so got the son in law round and me watching he took the belts off and he replaced the water pump as he came to put the timing belt back on with out the tool to keep the cam pulley's in place I noticed both had slipped a few teeth one way this would be down to not having the tool in place to stop them and the springs on the valves shoving them around , any we lined them up as they should be and put the belt on and since then the car has run a lot smoother and better acceleration , now the head gasket was done a few years ago by a garage and I am just wondering if they did not have the tool and the settings were one tooth out.

B34R · Sep 24, 2015

Alibro said:
BTW use clothes pegs to hold the belt in place around the pulleys as you refit it.

...

...

genius.

When going through my head gasket escapades I never thought of that, I must have had the belt on and off 20-30 times while working on the car. Would of saved me a lot of "*ping* ker-b*****d!" moments.

Alibro · Sep 24, 2015

B34R said:
...

...

genius.

When going through my head gasket escapades I never thought of that, I must have had the belt on and off 20-30 times while working on the car. Would of saved me a lot of "*ping* ker-b*****d!" moments.

Lol, might be genius but not mine. I say someone else doing it that way.
Can't remember why not but I didn't use my locking tool to hold the cams while fitting mine. Maybe it was too tight or something but I just held them with a home made cam puller.

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