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Kevc09

New Member
Ive been coming back here for months for loads of useful info since buying my TD4 back in July. Hope someone here can tell me if Ive been stitched up. I had my usual garage look over it the week I bought and they said it was OK, no major problems at all.
Trip round the Lakes with the kids in Aug, back and forth over Harknott Pass. No sweat. On my way home EM light comes on and goes off after about a min. Finally get round to taking it back to my mechanic who is chocabloc as hes going in for a hand op the following week. So I bite the bullet and decide its better but costlier to take it to a local independant specialist. £400 bill for full service and new turbo solenoid and the ground shocking revelation that its 2WD!!!!! The propshafts and VCU are still in situ.
What I would like to know is, what is the likelihood that the vehicle was 4wd when I bought it and has since broken in some way to now only be 2wd? Is this even possible. The I.S. did probably explain to me but my mind was on getting home to ring the dealers who had finished for the day by the time I got home at 6:30. I'm taking it back there tomorrow armed with the useful info i have found here regarding SOGA etc. I just dont want them giving me any bull ****.
Any help would be much appreciated. All I can find is info about removing propshafts.
Thanks,
Kevin.
 
Do the one-wheel-up test, do it with someone else helping so one of you can watch to see if both halves of the propshaft turn.
If both halves turn, it's an IRD issue.
If neither turn, it's at your diff.
If just the rear turns, it's your VCU.
If just the front turns, someone is doing voodoo on you and you'll probably be dead in a few days so don't worry about the car! :eek:

I would think it's very unlikely that your IRD or diff would break without you noticing.
The VCU failing in that way is pretty rare, more likely to be a scam recon unit, in which case you were sold a dud.

Someone like Bell Engineering (about 100 miles from you) would be able to tell you if your VCU is failed or faked, probably also if your IRD or diff are modified.
 
Last edited:
bukko said:
Do the one-wheel-up test, do it with someone else helping so one of you can watch to see if both halves of the propshaft turn.
If both halves turn, it's an IRD issue.
If neither turn, it's at your diff.
If just the rear turns, it's your VCU.
If just the front turns, someone is doing voodoo on you and you'll probably be dead in a few days so don't worry about the car! :eek:

I would think it's very unlikely that your IRD or diff would break without you noticing.
The VCU failing in that way is pretty rare, more likely to be a scam recon unit, in which case you were sold a dud.
Click to expand...

It's pretty dodgy that people are selling freelanders with damaged drive trains or drivetrains that have been modified with iRDs or VCUs designed for 2wd conversion. Most buyers will only check to make sure the prop is all in place and do the full lock reverse test to check the VCU isn't stiff. I guess if you bust out a breaker bar, torque wrench and Jack and start jacking it up most sellers/dealers would think you where taking the ****. Surely it's not legal to sell a 4x4 knowing its a two wheel drive conversion without making the fact clear.

I'd do the checks to find out which component is faulty/modified and approach the seller.

I guess if I test drive one I'll have to take it on some mud or grass to make sure the rear wheels are receiving power. Might just take my kit to do a wheel up test as well while I'm on a test drive.
 
I think I recall the I.S saying the vcu is definatley seized and the Diff?? has metal in it??
I have no real car mechanic knowledge so I dont really understand whats what, just what I have picked up from hours spent reading here. I dont want the dealers saying it happened after i bought it if thats not possible. Can a vcu seize and the car still drive with out mechanical intervention by a human? I'm assuming not if ppl remove the propshafts when vcu's do seize, or have I got it all wrong? I think I may have to wait to speak to the I.S again on Monday before getting hold of the dealer.
Thanks guys.
 
Dodgey is putting it mildly.
It's clearly being done to deceive the buyer.
If the problem is due to a failure and out of warranty (most give 3 months), it might be tricky convincing a dealer it was like that when you bought it.
If it's an obvious modification though, you'd be on much better ground as buyers should be informed if a car has been substantially modified, and I would call that substantial!
 
If the VCU is seized, it will only be 2wd if the diff or IRD are broken or have been modded.
As I said, unlikely for either to break without you noticing, usually the car becomes undrivable.
The one-wheel-up test will show whether it's the diff or the IRD, most likely it's the IRD.
There are 2wd IRD units available and are sold as such; if it's one of those, you should have been told when you bought it.
 
I agree. I'd take it to Bell and have them check it, they will do so free of charge. You will probably want the work done to rectify it as a 2 wheel drive Land Rover is as useful as a chocolate fireguard. If it does turn out to be a modified IRD or VCU I'd take it further with the seller/dealer. It's certainly not fit for purpose. Like Bukko says if it's damaged components you will have a very hard job proving you didn't do it.

From your mechanics diagnosis it sounds like the VCU has seized and made the diff self destruct. I'm surprised this hasn't caused any noticeable effects or noise though (grinding/whining) (unless someone has opened up the diff and removed the crown wheel & pinion and all the debris).

You definitely need to find out if it's damage or a mod & take it from there.
 
Ok, thanks for your replies. Definitely points towards it being 2wd when I bought it. Whether the dealer was aware or not they have obligations to rectify it or give me my money back, trouble is I traded in a car as part ex which will obviously be long gone.
 
Just like to add that I can't wait to get a bloody 4wd drive one. I should have known. A fortnight after I bought mine, a mate who was looking for a new car went out and bought one and when I had a go it was like being back in my 3 series! You can just feel the back wheels pushing you as you go around a corner. I told him i thought that his had been chipped or remappeed or something so when I looked into getting mine done he was with me and saw the quoted mpg benefits. He had his done first and they told him his ECU had already been adjusted so that kinda put my mind at rest.
It explains why he's always whinging about his mpg whereas I currently get about the same as the bmw did.http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/images/smilies/smilies2/beer2.gif
 
Kevc09 said:
I think I recall the I.S saying the vcu is definatley seized and the Diff?? has metal in it??
I have no real car mechanic knowledge so I dont really understand whats what, just what I have picked up from hours spent reading here. I dont want the dealers saying it happened after i bought it if thats not possible. Can a vcu seize and the car still drive with out mechanical intervention by a human? I'm assuming not if ppl remove the propshafts when vcu's do seize, or have I got it all wrong? I think I may have to wait to speak to the I.S again on Monday before getting hold of the dealer.
Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

So they know the diff has metal in it....how?
There is only a top up plug on it...so without taking the plate off which is a right bitch to reseal in situ how did they determin this?
 
If the vehicle was sold not as described / not fit for purpose, if they fail to rectify or refund in full (total including your px) take them to court.

It's cheap. I know an ace solicitor who helped me with mine. I got paid out a year after buying.
 
mjrimmer said:
So they know the diff has metal in it....how?
There is only a top up plug on it...so without taking the plate off which is a right bitch to reseal in situ how did they determin this?
Click to expand...

Asked him this morning. Apparently he stuck a tie wrap in. Also the vcu is not seized it spins freely.
I think my problem is proving to trading standards or whoever that the 4WD failure didn't happen in my ownership and that Ive not tried to make it look like they hid it from me if they were even aware.
The previous owner spent nearly £4k having a new turbo and dual mass fly wheel in april this year and then sold it before July so it may be that he had the failure and concealed it from the dealer who unknowingly sold it to me??
I have rang the dealer and they told me they need to speak to their mechanic and it will be Thursday before they can get back to me!
 
Igloo said:
If the vehicle was sold not as described / not fit for purpose, if they fail to rectify or refund in full (total including your px) take them to court.

It's cheap. I know an ace solicitor who helped me with mine. I got paid out a year after buying.
Click to expand...

I wonder what my chances are of getting back the £160 fees for having my private plate put on and inevitably taken off again plus the £400 service bill?
 
Just spoke to them again, they've said they are not interested as I have had it 4 months and it must be something that has happened during my ownership as it was 4wd when I bought it. Looks like i'll be giving Trading standards a call.

Igloo said:
If the vehicle was sold not as described / not fit for purpose, if they fail to rectify or refund in full (total including your px) take them to court.

It's cheap. I know an ace solicitor who helped me with mine. I got paid out a year after buying.
Click to expand...

Had yours been concealed to still look like a 4wd? Did you get back the full amount?
 
Kevc09 said:
Just spoke to them again, they've said they are not interested as I have had it 4 months and it must be something that has happened during my ownership as it was 4wd when I bought it. Looks like i'll be giving Trading standards a call.



Had yours been concealed to still look like a 4wd? Did you get back the full amount?
Click to expand...

If your VCU is spinning freely, get it looked at. Evidence is key.
If it has no fluid in it, or is otherwise modified to be open circuit, it clearly wasn't something you did.
The chances are that this is concealing a fault with the IRD or diff, so don't even think about putting a good VCU on to try it out.
 
Kevc09 said:
Just spoke to them again, they've said they are not interested as I have had it 4 months and it must be something that has happened during my ownership as it was 4wd when I bought it. Looks like i'll be giving Trading standards a call.



Had yours been concealed to still look like a 4wd? Did you get back the full amount?
Click to expand...

I got back all fees, plus £100 for the new battery, plus all costs involved with getting to court and lost earnings due to the vehicle.

Mine was sold with a new mot which it shouldn't have had. Plus lots of other faults including injectors held together with cable ties which came loose and nearly set fire to the engine bay. Plus more...

If they don't care, I'd advise getting in contact with a solicitor and sending a letter advising of this. You could get an independent involved to verify what's wrong. They can say for example the cases of the diff have a layer of much consistent with x months / miles. It's down to them to prove it OK, not you to prove it's not. They're the "specialist".
 
Maybe give the previous owner a bell to find out if he had the vcu changed........it's been known before for some suppliers sending out duff units.
 
if the vcu is spinning freely, it has been done to deceive!

it is deemed to be the sellers fault if it occurs within the first 6 months. read the crock of **** thread. all is explained.
 
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