Dunphy23

Member
My defender 200tdi now wont start after it juddered coming up to a roundabout, I pulled over and it cut out. I’ve checked the timing belt and it’s not that. I’m getting 12v to the fuel pump solenoid but I’m not getting any fuel to the injectors.

Any help is very much appreciated

Sam
 
You may well be getting 12v to the injection pump but are you getting fuel to it?
Check you have fuel coming out of the lift pump, check you have fuel coming out of the filter and too the injector pump and then the injectors.
Lest us know how you get on.
It is a good idea to have a clear fuel pile from filter to injection pump, you can see straight away if you have fuel and air bubbles.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll be investigating on Saturday so hopefully I can get it running. I’ve got a new lift pump just incase as I don’t think I’m getting any pressure on the manual arm anyway
 
I don't think a faulty lift pump would make it stall but I guess you never know. Worth changing anyway as they are cheap enough.
How about taking the inlet pipe into the filter off and crank it over with the key, see if its pumping fuel.
 
The 200 has a manual arm on the lift pump, right?

Crack off the banjo nut on the top of the fuel filter (or at the front of the injection pump, if that's easier) and pump the manual arm.

It's possible to have it on a cam lobe, so the arm does nothing other than flap about, so, if it does that, pulse the starter and try again.

If you still get no fuel, have someone sit in the vehical and spin over the starter whilst you look at the loosened banjo. Fuel should squirt out.

If it doesn't, you've got an issue in tank or at the lift pump.

If it does squirt out, connect everything back up again and loosen one of the injector pipes and take it (the pipe) off the injector. Get your helper to spin the starter again. Should see a pulse of fuel. It's not loads here but a blipping.

At this point you know if it's a tank / lift pump issue, or...
An injection pump issued, or...
A timing issue.
 
Fuel starvation normally manifests with lack of power and then the engine fizzling out. You can hold it on idle for a while and then it stalls.

Sudden stoppage sounds much more like a timing issue to me.
 
Could also be the stop solenoid failed, cam lobes in the hp pump do wear out so it doesn’t pump at high enough pressures to run ( more so running on red, that doesn’t have so many additives)
 
So I’ve changed the lift pump and am now getting fuel to the filter, checked the fuel then going to the injector pump and am getting fuel there, checked the fuel going to injectors and nothing. So I took out the plunger on the solenoid and still nothing.

Any ideas?
 
So I’ve changed the lift pump and am now getting fuel to the filter, checked the fuel then going to the injector pump and am getting fuel there, checked the fuel going to injectors and nothing. So I took out the plunger on the solenoid and still nothing.

Any ideas?
 
With the engine cranking you have nothing coming out of the injection pump?
Is the injection pump actually spinning, belt still attached?
 
No, I’m getting nothing, I jacked the drivers wheel up and span it and looked in the oil cap and the rockers are moving so I’m guessing it’s attached
 
Just to be sure -

With your helper in the car, cranking it over, with the injector lines off, you're not seeing any fuel out of the lines at all? (Bearing in mind that we are talking small pulses, not some gushing flow)

And you have removed the plunger from the stop solenoid and put the solenoid back in place (without the plunger)

But, if you pump the lift pump with the banjo on the front of the injection pump loose, you get fuel come out all over the nose of the pump as you do the lever?

I'm guessing you have done the fuel filter, but, that's probably irrelevant if you can confirm that you have fuel coming out of that banjo on the front of the pump.


Can you just confirm all of the above, so we can be sure we are on the same page?


For the ease of it, you may as well take off the access hatch on the timing case front, that aligns with the fuel pump. Just to eyeball it and make sure it's spinning. I can't really see how the sprocket could spin and not the pump but you're this far in that you'll be taking that cover off soon enough anyway, and it's only 3 screws.


The reason I wanted to be so sure of the fuel supply is that the pump has a reservoir in it, and, if you've managed (somehow) to pump a load of air into it, it will take time to clear.

Also, if you've been up to stuff with the lift pump, they can be a pig to get to seal up properly and stop sucking in air.


Likely none of these are your issue though, but you have to check these things otherwise youre just going around in circles.


There is a lot to be said for making up some clear pipe for post lift pump connections. A couple of banjos and some clear nylon pneumatic pipe let you see exactly what's going on.


But, if it's a certainty that the injection pump has a good supply of fuel, AND it's a certainty that it's spinning, AND it's a certainty that the plunger is out of the solenoid and it's all back together again, AND still there's no fuel coming out of the output ports on the pump... Well that then sounds like the pump is stuffed.


One last thing to check, which I've never had a problem with, but a real life friend did (I can't remember how it manifests itself but we are clutching at straws now) -

The pump regulates it's internal pressure with a pinhole in the banjo bolt at the rear. Where the leak off pipes attach to the pump.

If you take out that bolt and look at it, it's not like the others. It has a pin hole in it. If that hole gets blocked the pump does odd things. I don't think it's your problem at all, but, if you have certainly ruled out all the rest (including air ingress from the lift pump olives that you've recently had undone) then it's probably the only thing to do before you conclude the pump is stuffed.
 
Thanks for your suggestions.

I can confirm the injection pump is getting fuel, it’s definitely spinning and I’ve removed the plunger and spring from the solenoid.

Took that bolt you mentioned off and it was clean, also checked and retightened the olive fittings on the lift pump.

Looks like the injection pump has had it. There was little bits of metal shavings on the plunger when I removed it and I took some more out with a telescopic magnet.

Any recommendations for a good supplier for the injection pump or is worth taking mine off and sending it away to be rebuilt? If so same again on recommendations.
 
Sounds like the FiP, whip it off and sent it to Diesel Bob.

 
We just had one rebuilt at Diesel Bob, it's is now back there under warranty having failed immediately.
To be fair claiming on warranty was a painless process and it will be back in less than a week. Hopefully it will be fine this time, never read a problem with his work.
 
We just had one rebuilt at Diesel Bob, it's is now back there under warranty having failed immediately.
To be fair claiming on warranty was a painless process and it will be back in less than a week. Hopefully it will be fine this time, never read a problem with his work.
How much did this cost if you don’t mind me asking. I’ve read good things about them online so I’ve gave them an email.
 
How much did this cost if you don’t mind me asking. I’ve read good things about them online so I’ve gave them an email.
Usually between £300 and £500 +vat.
Ours was £600 as apparently it was knackered ( non technical term).
It went really well after the refurb except one of the seals was leaking. Claiming on warranty was no problem, if it's leak free this time then we would certainly used them again if needed.
 
Thanks for your suggestions.

I can confirm the injection pump is getting fuel, it’s definitely spinning and I’ve removed the plunger and spring from the solenoid.

Took that bolt you mentioned off and it was clean, also checked and retightened the olive fittings on the lift pump.

Looks like the injection pump has had it. There was little bits of metal shavings on the plunger when I removed it and I took some more out with a telescopic magnet.

Any recommendations for a good supplier for the injection pump or is worth taking mine off and sending it away to be rebuilt? If so same again on recommendations.
Swarf means FIP is dead.
 

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