gary brion · Feb 15, 2019

Help needed please, my mot is in the morning
Just replaced front pads and adjusted rear shoes all went well, Now there has for a while been
a bit of travel on the pedal always better with a second pump,
After we finished the job could not get the system to bleed up, pedal right to the floor
rushed out and changed the master, and still going to the floor...Any help really appreciated thanks
Its a 110 pre defender rear drums and front discs by the way.

tottot · Feb 15, 2019

Master Cylinder rod may need adjusting. Also since you can not bleed, undo the feed lines to the brakes on the master and see if fluid comes out. If it does not flow the master piston may have stuck down. Happens with a new unit sometimes because it is "dry".
When bleeding I have found the wait and see [gravity] method is best,just fill resevoir and open a brake nipple and wait for bubble free fluid to come out. Start at the furthest one from the master.Should only take a couple of mins per brake.Keep res full.

gary brion · Feb 15, 2019

tottot said:
Master Cylinder rod may need adjusting. Also since you can not bleed, undo the feed lines to the brakes on the master and see if fluid comes out. If it does not flow the master piston may have stuck down. Happens with a new unit sometimes because it is "dry".
When bleeding I have found the wait and see [gravity] method is best,just fill resevoir and open a brake nipple and wait for bubble free fluid to come out. Start at the furthest one from the master. Should only take a couple of mins per brake.Keep res full.

Thanks for that, should have said, we have good pressure at each nipple, fluid flying down the tube
once nipples are then closed back to the pedal to the carpet

tottot · Feb 15, 2019

Then it would seam that master rod adjustment is out.

gary brion · Feb 15, 2019

tottot said:
Then it would seam that master rod adjustment is out.

Many Thanks tottot...could you just give me a quick rundown on adjustment, please? I have done clutch but not brake

tottot · Feb 16, 2019

I know there should be only 3mm play before the rod actuates the piston but have forgot how

sorry. Someone else may help.

gary brion · Feb 16, 2019

Well tried that and still the same, just big constant clods of air coming down the clear tube
tried reverse bleeding as well, thinking now of getting one of those ezeblead kits

tottot · Feb 16, 2019

If air is getting in there is a good chance new master is duff,not unknown. Try gravity bleeding.

gary brion · Feb 17, 2019

tottot said:
If air is getting in there is a good chance new master is duff, not unknown. Try gravity bleeding.

Many Thanks will try that tomorrow

nobber · Feb 17, 2019

gary brion said:
Well tried that and still the same, just big constant clods of air coming down the clear tube
tried reverse bleeding as well, thinking now of getting one of those ezeblead kits

air can pass by the nipple threads giving the illusion of air in the system when using suction to pull fluid through.

gary brion · Feb 18, 2019

Ok Guys tried gravity bleeding and pressurized bleeding, adjusted master cylinder rod travel
the only thing I am thinking is the rear shoes will not adjust up properly, they tighten a bit, not enough to lock the hubs
and just drops off, the shoes themselves are low, so will replace them in the morning..Would these rear brake
issues make for the pedal going to the floor? Ta.

jamesmartin · Feb 18, 2019

gary brion said:
Ok Guys tried gravity bleeding and pressurized bleeding, adjusted master cylinder rod travel
the only thing I am thinking is the rear shoes will not adjust up properly, they tighten a bit, not enough to lock the hubs
and just drops off, the shoes themselves are low, so will replace them in the morning..Would these rear brake
issues make for the pedal going to the floor? Ta.

you need to ensure that the pole on the shoe lines up with the center of the snail cam ,they can be fitted wrong so you dont get full travel from the adjuster

gary brion · Feb 18, 2019

jamesmartin said:
you need to ensure that the pole on the shoe lines up with the center of the snail cam ,they can be fitted wrong so you dont get full travel from the adjuster

Could this account for this soggy pedal?

jamesmartin · Feb 18, 2019

if there was too much travel in the shoes pedal would travel further but 2 quick pumps should see a better pedal

gary brion · Feb 18, 2019

jamesmartin said:
if there was too much travel in the shoes pedal would travel further but 2 quick pumps should see a better pedal

Thank you, James, Yes 2 pumps is the case, let you know how we get on tomorrow

Flossie · Feb 19, 2019

As James says it's easy to fit the shoes wrong, if they are rolling off the cam then that's your problem unless the cams are worn too bad but that's unlikely.
The shoes look the same but they are not!
If you clamp off the rear Flexi you should get a firm pedal confirming the rear brake fault.

gary brion · Feb 19, 2019

Thanks All.....That was the problem, rear shoes not adjusting up correct, lovely pedal
and fantastic brake now, thanks again guys

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