Ty Modur said:
In the mean time I am working on the theory that one or more of the injectors just could not take being moved, even as gently as they were and that one or more of them are simply letting all the pressure run away. The car has done 120000 miles so they have done well and it has been a sod to start from cold for a few years (notice subtle blame shifting) If anyone else ever reads this about injectors. I was surprised as it is meant to be a high pressure system, that I never had any sense of high pressure being released undoing the connectors. Tomorrow I shall try the injector run off test just using the electric pumps without cranking it. I suppose that if one or more are running off then they are probably Monty Pythons Parrots

I shall report back! thanks for everyone's, contributions Bore Da!
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All 4 injectors won't fail the same time, unless you broke the tops off them.

The common rail injection system will run up to 125,000Kpa. It's a very high pressure, but very small volume. Also the rail pressure decays very quickly after shut down, so there's little evidence of this high pressure on disassembly.
Ty Modur said:
Final thought for the night, Never in my wildest dreams have I imagined that I would be going to sleep hoping I have broken one or more injectors. Funny old world
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It'll be a cam or crank sensor that isn't working or plugged in. All injectors won't fail at the same time.
 
Nodge68 said:
All 4 injectors won't fail the same time, unless you broke the tops off them.

The common rail injection system will run up to 125,000Kpa. It's a very high pressure, but very small volume. Also the rail pressure decays very quickly after shut down, so there's little evidence of this high pressure on disassembly.


It'll be a cam or crank sensor that isn't working or plugged in. All injectors won't fail at the same time.
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Thanks for that. I do get the all 4 not going thing. about to face runoff test, will dble check sensors plugged in too.
 
By the way no I didn't break the tops off ..... That's what is so odd, the injectors popped out really easily, I then treated them with kid gloves until they went back in, then I had to take them out again. dont ask, then I got them mixed up. I didn't disconnect or touch the crank sensor, it is back on the crankshaft on the TD4 on the block miles from the flywheel. The cam position sensor id definitely plugged in and the car does seem to know what order to fire each injector once, if the sensor was not working surely they would not fire at all? plus all I did with the sensor was disconnect it, I gave the inside of the camcover a clean with some brake cleaner, so why would it fail? I have tried the leak off just with the electric pump and they are dry. Had to re-fit the hi pressure pump, mounting bracket, starter etc.. before trying the leak off while cranking. Out of time, light, battery and patience now.
 
Nodge68 said:
The HP pump is turning correctly?
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As far as I can tell, I used the proper tool to remove, refit it and there were nice spurts of fuel when I cranked it and a high pressure run off when I undid a union. and it span and spat beautifully when I had it in my hands.
 
Ty Modur said:
By the way no I didn't break the tops off ..... That's what is so odd, the injectors popped out really easily, I then treated them with kid gloves until they went back in, then I had to take them out again. dont ask, then I got them mixed up. I didn't disconnect or touch the crank sensor, it is back on the crankshaft on the TD4 on the block miles from the flywheel. The cam position sensor id definitely plugged in and the car does seem to know what order to fire each injector once, if the sensor was not working surely they would not fire at all? plus all I did with the sensor was disconnect it, I gave the inside of the camcover a clean with some brake cleaner, so why would it fail? I have tried the leak off just with the electric pump and they are dry. Had to re-fit the hi pressure pump, mounting bracket, starter etc.. before trying the leak off while cranking. Out of time, light, battery and patience now.
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Why would it fire all 4 then stop? Maybe something like the low fuel pressure shutoff is activating. Td4 will cut power to the fuel pressure reg on HP pump if the low pressure supply is inadequate, to save the HP pump.

Could you have knocked the low pressure fuel sensor plug? This, as far as I remember, is low down on the left-hand side of the engine bay, just where you’d be joggling the gearbox to get it back on.

I’ll say it again - you’re going to be working really hard unless you get a decent scanner on there, with live data.
 
guineafowl21 said:
Why would it fire all 4 then stop? Maybe something like the low fuel pressure shutoff is activating. Td4 will cut power to the fuel pressure reg on HP pump if the low pressure supply is inadequate, to save the HP pump.

Could you have knocked the low pressure fuel sensor plug? This, as far as I remember, is low down on the left-hand side of the engine bay, just where you’d be joggling the gearbox to get it back on.

I’ll say it again - you’re going to be working really hard unless you get a decent scanner on there, with live data.
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Hello again, no, the pressure sensor is in the end of the fuel rail, well out of the way of the gearbox, and as I understand from other posts, if the sensors are not functioning it will give an error code. I have a hand scanner and the new EasyOBD2 laptop say no fault code. The EasyOBD2 claims it should work. It does have an icon for fluid flows but although it does go into some things it says that flows and sensors etc. are unsupported. Thanks for the suggestions
 
Ty Modur said:
Hello again, no, the pressure sensor is in the end of the fuel rail, well out of the way of the gearbox, and as I understand from other posts, if the sensors are not functioning it will give an error code. I have a hand scanner and the new EasyOBD2 laptop say no fault code. The EasyOBD2 claims it should work. It does have an icon for fluid flows but although it does go into some things it says that flows and sensors etc. are unsupported. Thanks for the suggestions
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Not the rail pressure sensor, the low fuel pressure sensor.

I have seen no-start engines with no error codes, as well as scanners that report no error codes when there are.
 
guineafowl21 said:
Not the rail pressure sensor, the low fuel pressure sensor.

I have seen no-start engines with no error codes, as well as scanners that report no error codes when there are.
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Ahh, is se what you mean, but just checked that, didn't touch it and all looks OK. Just double checked with my scanner, it gives me air flow but lots of other features claim to be unsupported. Note to any one else thinking of going digital, EasyOBD2 claims to be compatible, lists landrover, looks pro, but doesn't work fully on this 04 plate TD4 and have not yet replied to my query. Thank you so much for your time and consideration guineafowl21.
 
I still can't get round why it's not starting. If you've had the HP pump out, have you reconnected the pressure regulator plug on the end of the HP pump?
 
Ty Modur,

This to me something really basic........

Despite your assurances that you have reconnected everything ( I believe you have ) you need to get back under the hood etc and treble check everything methodically and systematically. When you removed the cam cover/airbox did you disconnect the MAF sensor? If so was that reconnected. You would only be able to see that with the plastic cover removed....The car will not start if the MAF is disconnected and as you were in that area it's worth having look. Also, even though you have reconnected the fuel pressure sensor harness this too can give problems in that, corrosion can accumumulate on the wiring within the harness(not necessarily at the connectors) By disconnecting it you may have caused an issue within the wiring etc? If you have any contact cleaner you need to spray the connectors(not easy on the sensor it is partially hidden) and also, if possible get some cleaner down the harness wiring.

Everything else requires checking and rechecking. Despite it being a 'GayLander' these motors are generally tough with a few well known faults. They aren't idiot proof (unlike a Defender for example) as I have found out to my cost (in time etc) so don't give up.

One other thing, if you have removed the injectors, did you replace the washers etc in the injector 'inlet' and beforehand, clean out any crap that was down inside the 'inlet'....

Pretty sure that if you had a 'posse' of TD4 owners looking in the engine bay, each with a brew and a biscuit your mate would have his TD4 back running in no time and yo would be the Hero and not feel too bad!!

OBD2 scanners aren't the best things for LR's in general....reading on here HAWKEYE and only a couple of others are worth using...unless you fork out on a Snap On gizmo. I have no such thing and my scan tool is basically useless...
 
Hello, yes defo put the MAF back, and it gave me a reading on the laptop earlier. I am reluctant to buy a HAWKEYE, the £250 the kit costs, plus the delay.... I hate to admit defeat, but I am starting to think that that money would be better spent on a local specialist.... Where does the wiring corrode? I put the injector loom up out of the way and the loom to the glow plugs got a lot of wiggling too so upsetting either of those is a definite maybe. Yep, checked each injector seat and blasted with air for good measure before re-fitting injectors with new seat seals and O rings. Plus the engine ran briefly with a blast of brake cleaner. Probably would have given up earlier but when I went to the local specialist to admit defeat and beg for help he was closed. To say the odds feel stacked....
 
Ty Modur said:
Hello, yes defo put the MAF back, and it gave me a reading on the laptop earlier. I am reluctant to buy a HAWKEYE, the £250 the kit costs, plus the delay.... I hate to admit defeat, but I am starting to think that that money would be better spent on a local specialist.... Where does the wiring corrode? I put the injector loom up out of the way and the loom to the glow plugs got a lot of wiggling too so upsetting either of those is a definite maybe. Yep, checked each injector seat and blasted with air for good measure before re-fitting injectors with new seat seals and O rings. Plus the engine ran briefly with a blast of brake cleaner. Probably would have given up earlier but when I went to the local specialist to admit defeat and beg for help he was closed. To say the odds feel stacked....
Click to expand...
Icarsoft i930 or pscan would do.
 
Thank you for those, I will investigate tomorrow. And thanks again all for the encouragement you have been absolute stars
 
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