Alibro
Well-Known Member
I used this stuff
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/518-anaer...423545?hash=item4cfe631fb9:g:J-AAAOxy2CZTY0Zz
Had no problems so far.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/518-anaer...423545?hash=item4cfe631fb9:g:J-AAAOxy2CZTY0Zz
Had no problems so far.
Nowhere has any locally and online retailers are going to be around a week before i can get some. I have some loctite 638 in the cupboard, reckon that'll work? Both anaerobic, same temperature ratings but 638 has a shear rating of 25nm as opposed to 518 which has 7.5nm. Saying that though i'm rapidly losing time/light to start today i think, local k series engine specialist was useless as they told me the k series 1.8 didn't have a bearing carrier and that i clearly had no idea what i was on about and not to trust what people say online. They recommended i go buy a haynes manual so i don't break anything.... haynes manual says "Apply a bead of sealant to the highlighted area of the bearing carrier mating surface". Never going to QED in quorn again haha. So rude!
Found some ANEROBIC SEALING COMPOUND FROM VAUXHALL PART NUMBER 90542114 at the local vauxhall garage for £9.50. Someone else on another forum said they used that for the k series engine without issues so i'll go grab a tube.
Do i need the genuine cam locking tool as well?
Do i need the genuine cam locking tool as well?
B34R
Active Member
Did they put an MLS on? If so that's your problem right there.
Don't go with an MLS again on that engine unless you're going to shim the liner.
B34R
Active Member
Any anaerobic sealant should be good, so long as it's oil resistant.
I wouldn't bother with the cam locking tool - one thing to bear in mind, pay very close attention to the carrier release/torqueing procedure in the RAVE manual. They're very easy to bend and while most people never have a problem, it's always worth doing it right.
Also, take your time stripping it down, pay close attention to the orientation of the cams, how they mate with the sprockets (there's two keyholes per sprocket) and the alignment of the sprockets on the cambelt. Someone on here had a genius moment, when you're putting it back together grab some clothes pegs to hold the belts onto the cam sprockets - it'll make your life so much easier.
My neighbours learned some choice new four letter words when the belt slipped off the sprockets for the 27th time last time I did it.
They did indeed. I didn't know much about it back in january but have done a fair bit of reading since then. I've got an MLS replacement, a payen BLUE bw750 and a set of feeler guages sat on the side ready and waiting so i can check it myself and fit the most appropriate one once the head is off. To be honest, the garage didn't do a fantastic job. Everything is gunked up with RTV (inlet manifold, cam cover gasket, cam carrier etc, oozed down into the spark plug holes) the cam cover bolts were loosely screwed in but not even tight and the oil drain plug wasn't done up so was leaking. I wouldn't go back there again thats for sure.
Just wanting to make sure i have everything in terms of tools, sealants etc before i make a start as i wont be able to get to anywhere once the car is immobilised. Only thing i really don't have is a valve press to replace valve stem seals (they came with the head gasket kit), am i right in thinking i can get away with just swapping the gasket and leaving the current valve seals as they are?
B34R
Active Member
One thing it took me a long time to realise - when you do the head bolts go around three times at any torque stage.
(I can't remember what the exact torque figure is, but...)
If the first stage is 30NM go around and torque everything to 30NM, then go around and do it again, then do it a third time.
You'll find that after the first stage bolts 1 and 2 have loosened off as the head has pulled down, keep going around until all of the bolts are at the correct torque figure and only then do the angle tightening.
If there's silicone everywhere make sure you get rid of it first, otherwise you'll end up with this:
The oil feeds to the main cam bearings were blocked when I stripped down to do the head gasket >.<
(I can't remember what the exact torque figure is, but...)
If the first stage is 30NM go around and torque everything to 30NM, then go around and do it again, then do it a third time.
You'll find that after the first stage bolts 1 and 2 have loosened off as the head has pulled down, keep going around until all of the bolts are at the correct torque figure and only then do the angle tightening.
If there's silicone everywhere make sure you get rid of it first, otherwise you'll end up with this:
The oil feeds to the main cam bearings were blocked when I stripped down to do the head gasket >.<
Thank you, those are some good pointers and i'll have to make sure to check all the little oil passageways.
So my friend dropped round earlier and we had a chance to sit and look at the exhaust smoke in the daylight for once. He seems to think it has more of a blueish tinge to it and reckons it could be burning oil, not water. Since putting in the k-seal the water level has been steady, despite constantly getting pressure from somewhere. We tried checking the dipstick but that was over reading by a long shot. I drained the oil before the mot so knew there was 4L of horrible, dirty oil in there. We took another litre out and let the car sit for a bit and re-checked the dipstick. Still over reading. There appears to be a small amount of oil thats pushed up through the ventilation tube and into the throttle body so i gave the air valve a little clean off and checked the hoses. Theres a small split in the elbow of the left breather hose but the hoses themselves appear unblocked.
Said friend seems to think one of the combustion chambers is leaking past the gasket and putting pressure into both the coolant and the oil circuits and that the pressure is forcing the oil up the dipstick tube and out the breather at the top of the cam cover. Is that possible? It does appear to be losing oil and the smoke is too much to be coolant now the coolant is staying at the same level.
So my friend dropped round earlier and we had a chance to sit and look at the exhaust smoke in the daylight for once. He seems to think it has more of a blueish tinge to it and reckons it could be burning oil, not water. Since putting in the k-seal the water level has been steady, despite constantly getting pressure from somewhere. We tried checking the dipstick but that was over reading by a long shot. I drained the oil before the mot so knew there was 4L of horrible, dirty oil in there. We took another litre out and let the car sit for a bit and re-checked the dipstick. Still over reading. There appears to be a small amount of oil thats pushed up through the ventilation tube and into the throttle body so i gave the air valve a little clean off and checked the hoses. Theres a small split in the elbow of the left breather hose but the hoses themselves appear unblocked.
Said friend seems to think one of the combustion chambers is leaking past the gasket and putting pressure into both the coolant and the oil circuits and that the pressure is forcing the oil up the dipstick tube and out the breather at the top of the cam cover. Is that possible? It does appear to be losing oil and the smoke is too much to be coolant now the coolant is staying at the same level.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Don't be a pillock (like a certain other person who will remain nameless) and remember to replace the cam seals while the head is off the car. Much easier than fighting with them at an awkward angle in the engine bay.
And re the torquing procedure, I have fitted two HG now in different cars, one MLS and one Payne elastomer and I found they were a completely different experience. The MLS seemed to compress very easily so after the initial 20nm it was very easy to do the two 180 degs. It was so easy I actually turned them another 90 deg before then checking all the bolts were at the same torque. This might be contrary to the instructions but as the gasket was not oem it may have needed more compressing, or I may have cocked it up somewhere but either way a year later it is still OK.
The Payne gasket was very tight on the first 180 deg so when I turned it the second 180 deg both me and my mate were bricking it. We both thought a bolt was going to shear so I was very glad I had bought good quality bolts.
Others may argue they should have been the same but those were my experiences.
And re the torquing procedure, I have fitted two HG now in different cars, one MLS and one Payne elastomer and I found they were a completely different experience. The MLS seemed to compress very easily so after the initial 20nm it was very easy to do the two 180 degs. It was so easy I actually turned them another 90 deg before then checking all the bolts were at the same torque. This might be contrary to the instructions but as the gasket was not oem it may have needed more compressing, or I may have cocked it up somewhere but either way a year later it is still OK.
The Payne gasket was very tight on the first 180 deg so when I turned it the second 180 deg both me and my mate were bricking it. We both thought a bolt was going to shear so I was very glad I had bought good quality bolts.
Others may argue they should have been the same but those were my experiences.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
The dipstick is useless in these cars and it is really easy to think the oil is low and put too much in. It only needs 4 - 5 litres so if you have put in more than that there is too much in it. It may explain why it is coming out the exhaust if the smoke is oil rather than steam. Might be worth draining it and put in the right amount of some cheap oil to see if it makes a difference but it may have burst a seal too.
Edit, just reread your last post and would agree with your friend.
I'm hoping my bolts are good, they were from gaskets for classics as recommended by someone else and the guy seemed pretty knowledgeable when i spoke to him on the phone. I'm sure i'd still be concerned whilst tightening them if i'd picked them up from the landrover dealership! haha. I also made sure to get the original bolts, not the newer ones that require less turns as i didn't know what oil rail this car has fitted. Figured if i'm not using the newer spec gasket anyway due to liner heights it would be better to go with the old style torque-180-180 bolts.
It definitely doesn't have too much oil in. Supposed to be 4.5 litres so when i couldn't get a reading for the mot i put a litre in before it showed up on the dipstick. Took it for the mot and then a day or two later the smoke problems began. I decided i'd drop the sump plug and measure how much oil was in there and i got 3.5 litres out of it (some got spilt so would have been a little more) It did smoke the most after the extra oil was added but when the dipstick was still over reading i took some out thinking i'd over filled it somehow and it still over-reads. I've just got 10L of halfords 10w40 as it's on offer at the minute. Thinking of using 4.5 litres as a flush to dilute the old black oil down a bit, drain it after a day or two and then fill up with fresh oil again and run for a short service span to see how the car runs in a few weeks.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Was probably me mentioned Gaskets for Classics as they were recommended in the MG forums and I used them before.
If you have the gasket I'd fit it then use the cheap stuff with an engine flush. That's what I did with my Freelander after finding loads of crystallised oil in the oil passages while changing the head gasket.
Mind you mine was so bad I couldn't draw two of the head bolts out. The threaded part of the bolts wouldn't go through the gunge and I ended up taking off the oil rail, unscrewing the bolts through the gunge as far as they would go so I could hammer them back down and clean the threads. I had to do that nearly ten times to get them out.
BTW never heard of bolts that need less turns, not sure what your talking about there unless they're shorter as if the threads were bigger they wouldn't fit 99% of oil rails.
If you have the gasket I'd fit it then use the cheap stuff with an engine flush. That's what I did with my Freelander after finding loads of crystallised oil in the oil passages while changing the head gasket.
Mind you mine was so bad I couldn't draw two of the head bolts out. The threaded part of the bolts wouldn't go through the gunge and I ended up taking off the oil rail, unscrewing the bolts through the gunge as far as they would go so I could hammer them back down and clean the threads. I had to do that nearly ten times to get them out.
BTW never heard of bolts that need less turns, not sure what your talking about there unless they're shorter as if the threads were bigger they wouldn't fit 99% of oil rails.
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Alibro
Well-Known Member
A link to my head replacement thread
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/head-bolts-jammed-and-wont-pull-out.279069/#post-3426645
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/head-bolts-jammed-and-wont-pull-out.279069/#post-3426645
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
That's such a good image of what happens if the wrong sealant is used, I thought I'd highlight the problem areas (circled in red) for future reference.One thing it took me a long time to realise - when you do the head bolts go around three times at any torque stage.
(I can't remember what the exact torque figure is, but...)
If the first stage is 30NM go around and torque everything to 30NM, then go around and do it again, then do it a third time.
You'll find that after the first stage bolts 1 and 2 have loosened off as the head has pulled down, keep going around until all of the bolts are at the correct torque figure and only then do the angle tightening.
If there's silicone everywhere make sure you get rid of it first, otherwise you'll end up with this:
The oil feeds to the main cam bearings were blocked when I stripped down to do the head gasket >.<
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of ways to torque the bolts dependant on the bolt type fitted. The standard spec bolts are torqued to 20 Nm then 180° plus another 180°. Some of the higher strength bolts are torqued to 20Nm then 180° plus 135°.
I like to use standard bolts but I torque in 5 stages.
These are: 20Nm then 90° a 2nd 90° a 3rd 90° and a final 90° . This still gives the same total 360° but spreads the clamping loads more evenly. I always use the elasopolyler gasket as it's by far the most forgiving of uneven liner hights.
I like to use standard bolts but I torque in 5 stages.
These are: 20Nm then 90° a 2nd 90° a 3rd 90° and a final 90° . This still gives the same total 360° but spreads the clamping loads more evenly. I always use the elasopolyler gasket as it's by far the most forgiving of uneven liner hights.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I did my first one in 90° stages but found it hard to gauge exactly 90° so wasn't 100% sure I had turned them all the same hence why I used a torque wrench to confirm they were all the at same torque. As I said before I felt at the time I had cocked it up but a year later no probs so maybe it wasn't so bad after all.
