farriermatt · Apr 30, 2016

I've taken the head of now hopefully I'm on the right track back in January I noticed the oil level was up a bit then I got some white smoke especially in the morning and was losing water. I kept going but then it started to get a bit iffy starting as if the starter was jamming in the flywheel, I changed the starter no real difference, it had had a new lift pump, and pressure pump and I was getting set to do the injector seats but in march one morning it just appeared to be seized, I tried a tow nothing just locked up the wheels in all gears and tried to pull rear cross member off my friends land rover!
Any way I started stripping it down this month to change the engine and when I removed the fan tried to crank it over with a socket and it was ok a bit of a sloshing noise from pot 1, with head off today I'm sure the gasket has failed near pot 1 and the piston has a good 1" of oily water in there other piston tops look like id expect, I know its not enough but I had a good look and can see no cracks in the head with naked eye!
Do these symptoms sound right for a head gasket? I'm reluctant to spend £150 on gaskets bolts etc if its something I'm missing something .

farriermatt · Apr 30, 2016

sorry pics are repeated the technology nearly beat me!

jamesmartin · Apr 30, 2016

head gasket has definitely been passing you can see the staining across the fire ring, if gasket had blown through it would have pumped coolant out of expansion bottle vigorously 2 and 5 dont look like they had long to go either,check piston height is th same as the others,trying to tow off whilst water locked isnt a good idea

lynall · Apr 30, 2016

Possibly the most important thing to look at is the plastic head locating dowels, are they still straight or most likely skewed over half their thickness?
Later engines (15p?) used steel locating dowels to stop the head shuffling sideways and the valves striking the cylinder walls and scrapping the engine.

farriermatt · Apr 30, 2016

jamesmartin said:
head gasket has definitely been passing you can see the staining across the fire ring, if gasket had blown through it would have pumped coolant out of expansion bottle vigorously 2 and 5 dont look like they had long to go either,check piston height is th same as the others,trying to tow off whilst water locked isnt a good idea

Is that what is referred to as hydraulicing? Also which bit do I measure it's locked to tdc?

jamesmartin · Apr 30, 2016

farriermatt said:
Is that what is referred to as hydraulicing? Also which bit do I measure it's locked to tdc?

it is
height of piston from block face,
zero dti on block twist over to the bore with piston about flush with block face then turn crank till piston reaches its highest point , read off check the others

farmerlake · Apr 30, 2016

lynall said:
Possibly the most important thing to look at is the plastic head locating dowels, are they still straight or most likely skewed over half their thickness?
Later engines (15p?) used steel locating dowels to stop the head shuffling sideways and the valves striking the cylinder walls and scrapping the engine.

Sorry to hijack a little, but how do I know what engine I would have, (15p??) mines a 2003 TD5.

Always good to see pictures, it gives a novice like me an idea of what is going on. Best of luck fixing your engine!

Brown · Apr 30, 2016

2003 would probably be the later engine. If you have a metal pipe going from the fuel pressure regulator to the front of the engine, then it's a 15p.

farriermatt · May 1, 2016

Both dowels Are toast so can't tell how deformed half in block half in head ,I did lift it straight honest

lynall · May 1, 2016

farriermatt said:
Both both dowels Are toast so can't tell how deformed half in block half in head ,I did lift it straight honest

Thats pretty bad which in a way is good as you will most likely get away with new head gasket.

farriermatt · May 1, 2016

I take it I drill out, get out somehow the broken bits of plastic and replace with the metal ones

farriermatt · May 1, 2016

jamesmartin said:
it is
height of piston from block face,
zero dti on block twist over to the bore with piston about flush with block face then turn crank till piston reaches its highest point , read off check the others

I'm going to buy a dti gauge have been meaning to so might get back to this next weekend, I take it I'm checking I didn't break or bend the crank when I towed it? , thanks for your trouble by the way

lynall · May 1, 2016

It will be the conrod thats bent if anything.

I can remember reading that land rover said you musnt fit the later engines steel dowels to the earlier engines, but the guys post I was reading had done a few with no issues.

As I understand it they used plastic dowels to stop the assembly line workers damaging the cyl head gasket face on the steel dowels same as the ill fated K series petrol engines.

I would fit the steel dowels and be done with it.

What I think happens is the engine gets extra hot for whatever reason the head tries to move and the plastic dowels cannot stop it as its shuffles sideways.

gazman · May 2, 2016

My idea for why the plastic dowels fail is that they suffer a side loading caused by the cam chain driving the cam, and this causes the dowel to wear and squash etc. The more worn the dowel the worse the angle of the head gets till the head gasket fails.

The steel ones can't be deformed as easily so last. That could all be a pile of bolx but it's my theory!

jamesmartin · May 2, 2016

gazman said:
My idea for why the plastic dowels fail is that they suffer a side loading caused by the cam chain driving the cam, and this causes the dowel to wear and squash etc. The more worn the dowel the worse the angle of the head gets till the head gasket fails.

The steel ones can't be deformed as easily so last. That could all be a pile of bolx but it's my theory!

clamping force of head bolts does that , heads will move during heat cycles steel dowels wont stop that ,if it cant slide it will bend,choice of dowels would have little effect imo

lynall · May 3, 2016

Just ask any mech older than 25 what they think of the k series engine

farriermatt · May 8, 2016

Hi all measured the crown protrusion on all Pistons, bloody hell that was fiddly. Anyway all same or near as damnit it so assume conrods are fine .Had a single hole gasket in and by my measurements, it puts it at the top of the tolerance for that one. Is it worth putting a 3 hole on in which I believe is next size up. 2 hole being the thickest according to my parts manual!
Am reseating injectors in head today then getting all parts this week for next weekends reassembly , Anything I've missed?

lightning · May 8, 2016

lynall said:
Just ask any mech older than 25 what they think of the k series engine

K Series was actually a very good engine and ahead of it's time. It also had very good torque at low RPM. The problem was mainly due to the positioning of the thermostat. There was an issue with the cooling system where the engine heated up too quickly for the cooling system to respond, the thermostat suddenly opened and create a rapid temperature change.

Later engines had a bleed valve on the thermostat to reduce the effect. It was particularly bad in Freelander where the engine worked hard to shift the heavy 4x4.

The thermostat would have been better sited at the outflow of the cylinder head.

lynall · May 9, 2016

What I was kind of getting at was the same plastic head dowels were fitted.
I can remember they held tiny amounts of coolant so very little leeway when things went wrong, cant be many left on the road now apart from special motors ie MGF etc.

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