Intestinalworm

Intestinalworm

Well-Known Member
2003 Discovery 2 Td5
16P engine
1-hole head gasket

Just after any tips/advice re things to watch out for and parts/tools/consumables required when replacing my head gasket - reassurance more than anything else as I haven't directly replaced a head gasket before! Hoping some experienced heads out there can steer me clear of any pitfalls?! The current head gasket is original and the engine number indicates it should have had the steel dowels fitted. A little while ago the cooling system pressurised (hard top coolant hose that was also leaking coolant) with exhaust gas - I suspected a small hairline crack in the head gasket. The bottle of "Rislone Head Gasket Fix" (with sodium silicate) stopped the exhaust gas leak, but I'm now getting ready to prepare everything to do the head gasket replacement job as a "quick fix" won't last forever!

Gasket1_LI.jpg


Gasket2_LI.jpg


As you can see I cleaned a lot of the congealed coolant underneath the top hose and it looks like it's definitely a 1-hole gasket there.

As far as tools go, I assume I will need to get the timing tools (two locking pins)? I have an analogue torque wrench that does up to 180Nm - will this be sufficient?

A mechanic friend told me that I must go with genuine LR 1-hole gasket LVB00250 (and genuine LR bolts ERR 5384) - what do you think, the price, especially for the genuine bolts is significantly more. I notice Elring and Victor Reinz head gaskets out there as OEM supply - any of these okay (as good as LR Genuine)?

Is there a technique for cleaning (any residue)/preparing the head after removing the old head gasket?

Apart from ratchets, breaker bar, sockets/extensions and hose clamp pliers, are there any other tools or consumables that are necessary or comes in handy? [I also have the spanners to remove the cooling fan.]

I'm looking at buying from Paddock Spares at the moment and shipping to Australia. Looking like I'll need the head gasket, two new steel dowels, 12 x bolts and an ancillary gasket kit (manifolds, turbo, etc.)? I obviously want to do a good job, but trying to find some cost savings - obviously labour will be one!

I have RAVE and waiting on Haynes manual as resources.

Thank you for any advice you can offer.
 
Intestinalworm said:
2003 Discovery 2 Td5
16P engine
1-hole head gasket

Just after any tips/advice re things to watch out for and parts/tools/consumables required when replacing my head gasket - reassurance more than anything else as I haven't directly replaced a head gasket before! Hoping some experienced heads out there can steer me clear of any pitfalls?! The current head gasket is original and the engine number indicates it should have had the steel dowels fitted. A little while ago the cooling system pressurised (hard top coolant hose that was also leaking coolant) with exhaust gas - I suspected a small hairline crack in the head gasket. The bottle of "Rislone Head Gasket Fix" (with sodium silicate) stopped the exhaust gas leak, but I'm now getting ready to prepare everything to do the head gasket replacement job as a "quick fix" won't last forever!

View attachment 266675

View attachment 266676

As you can see I cleaned a lot of the congealed coolant underneath the top hose and it looks like it's definitely a 1-hole gasket there.

As far as tools go, I assume I will need to get the timing tools (two locking pins)? I have an analogue torque wrench that does up to 180Nm - will this be sufficient?

A mechanic friend told me that I must go with genuine LR 1-hole gasket LVB00250 (and genuine LR bolts ERR 5384) - what do you think, the price, especially for the genuine bolts is significantly more. I notice Elring and Victor Reinz head gaskets out there as OEM supply - any of these okay (as good as LR Genuine)?

Is there a technique for cleaning (any residue)/preparing the head after removing the old head gasket?

Apart from ratchets, breaker bar, sockets/extensions and hose clamp pliers, are there any other tools or consumables that are necessary or comes in handy? [I also have the spanners to remove the cooling fan.]

I'm looking at buying from Paddock Spares at the moment and shipping to Australia. Looking like I'll need the head gasket, two new steel dowels, 12 x bolts and an ancillary gasket kit (manifolds, turbo, etc.)? I obviously want to do a good job, but trying to find some cost savings - obviously labour will be one!

I have RAVE and waiting on Haynes manual as resources.

Thank you for any advice you can offer.
Click to expand...
James Martin, sadly no longer active on here, but a great LR guru, advocates reusing the old bolts, this can be found in old threads if you dig hard enough. But considering your careful attitude and the fact that you'll be saving massively on labour costs I expect you'll be going with new ones.
Apart from all normal advice to be found anywhere on cleaning block and head surfaces, the only other thing to be done is to put a straight edge over the face of the head to test it is not warped, using feeler gauges. Apparently they CAN be ground back just slightly, again according to James and in the same thread he mentioned that if it is just a little out it'll pull flat again on being torqued down.
I do wish it was easier to find threads like this, but I'll have a little search. If I find it I'll put it up.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
James Martin, sadly no longer active on here, but a great LR guru, advocates reusing the old bolts, this can be found in old threads if you dig hard enough. But considering your careful attitude and the fact that you'll be saving massively on labour costs I expect you'll be going with new ones.
Apart from all normal advice to be found anywhere on cleaning block and head surfaces, the only other thing to be done is to put a straight edge over the face of the head to test it is not warped, using feeler gauges. Apparently they CAN be ground back just slightly, again according to James and in the same thread he mentioned that if it is just a little out it'll pull flat again on being torqued down.
I do wish it was easier to find threads like this, but I'll have a little search. If I find it I'll put it up.
Click to expand...

Oh, using the old bolts? Turner Engineering sell bolts by a company called AMC (made in Spain) - told me they were "at least" equivalent quality to genuine LR bolts. Need to do a bit of thinking about the bolts!
 
sierrafery said:
With all due respect... reusing "torque to yeld" stretch bolts is a silly thing IMHO as they elongate once tightened, it is against all logic and has no scientific support, the fact that somebody reused them and didnt have issues is not a valid argument for me.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%. If I'm not mistaken, there's a 3-stage angle torque on these bolts so they are almost certainly stretched past the yield zone and therefore permanently deformed. By stretching them beyond the elastic region, they are able to respond to dynamic sealing gap movements without the need for retorquing (as opposed to rolled shank bolts). But once installed, they are permanently elongated so further use on critical applications such as cylinder heads is definitely not advisable.
 
Re the reusing head bolts, JM did say, "check the lengths" but I also said I expect you'll be using new as you'll be saving so much on labour costs it'd be silly not to.
If it was my head I too would be using new. Last thing i'd want to do is to have to redo the job or worse still correct any faults that reusing old ones had led to!!!
But what can you do? Peeps do seem to get away with stuff!
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Re the reusing head bolts, JM did say, "check the lengths" but I also said I expect you'll be using new as you'll be saving so much on labour costs it'd be silly not to.
If it was my head I too would be using new. Last thing i'd want to do is to have to redo the job or worse still correct any faults that reusing old ones had led to!!!
But what can you do? Peeps do seem to get away with stuff!
Click to expand...

I've decided to go with new bolts from Paddock Spares (OEM - Victor Reinz); budget doesn't stretch to LR Genuine anymore with the price of fuel, energy, food, and everything else, here in Australia at the moment! Likewise with the head gasket itself, I'll also go with Paddock Spares - Elring (OEM). Any issues there? I'll also get new steel dowels even though I was told just to use the old ones - they only cost a few bob.
 
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Used Elring gaskets and sealants many times, including HGs and never had a problem. And same with Reinz products (although in my case it was Victor not Carl !).
 
NPG said:
Used Elring gaskets and sealants many times, including HGs and never had a problem. And same with Reinz products (although in my case it was Victor not Carl !).
Click to expand...

Wife just went to buy a Carl's Jnr burger for our son - can't see the attraction myself! He's been going on about it all morning! Power of suggestion - can't get Carl out of my head - he supplanted Victor!:D Okay, all good then - thanks for the practical feedback re Elring and Reinz. (Edited last post to Victor)
 
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Not to worry although I did think for a moment that Carl and Victor could be related :)

Anyways, I'm assuming you'll be using RAVE for instructions. Just go through them carefully and check that you have everything ready before you start. In general, any gaskets and sealing washers need to be replaced once removed and you'll also need locking pins for the cam & crank shafts.
 
NPG said:
Not to worry although I did think for a moment that Carl and Victor could be related :)

Anyways, I'm assuming you'll be using RAVE for instructions. Just go through them carefully and check that you have everything ready before you start. In general, any gaskets and sealing washers need to be replaced once removed and you'll also need locking pins for the cam & crank shafts.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that, have RAVE on my laptop and expecting a copy of the Haynes manual tomorrow. Ordered all the bits and pieces (parts) I know of from Paddock Spares in the end - hopefully I'll have them in a week or two from now (being posted to Australia).

The Rislone Head Gasket Fix has done the job for now (last month or so), no pressurisation and no coolant leak, but it only buys some time to get prepared really.

Just a few things, hopefully someone can help me with:

1. With the removal of the injectors, I don't have an injector removal tool - very expensive for what it is! Any (safe!) alternative/s or options? I assume replacing the injectors is easy - they just push back in to seal?

2. Assume I don't need any sealant for any gaskets, except for the back of the cam cover gasket half-moon? Notice STC 4600 recommended (Hylomar 3400 anaerobic sealant). Again, this is quite expensive (only need a small amount) and can't be shipped from the UK in any case; is there an alternative - I heard Loctite 574, but again, not exactly cheap!

3. I was thinking of taking the cylinder head to a machine shop for peace of mind - get them to check (pressure check) for warping/cracks and/or skim it if necessary? Does anyone know a fairly decent, reasonably priced machine shop in Melbourne (Australia) they could recommend within 30km of the CBD? Someone I know said to just put a new LR genuine gasket on (same as previous - 1 hole), new LR genuine bolts, and not bother about machining the head unless there is an obvious issue?! He said with the age/mileage it is likely just an expected fine crack of the head gasket that was allowing exhaust gas to get into the coolant and pressurise it (stopped for now with the the Rislone - dissolved sodium silicate hardens to a hard glass when exposed to hot exhaust).
 
Amazed you have done all this work with no Haynes! not that they are anywhere near as good as they used to be. Try finding how to change a Transmission temp sensor!
Australia is bound to have an equivalent to Hylomar, just ask a mechanic or local car bits shop.
There are various ways of removing the injectors, one simple way is to take a pair of water pump pliers apart and use one half of them to lever it out. Or you can use a slide hammer. Many manage to get away with using the right sized Allen key.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Amazed you have done all this work with no Haynes! not that they are anywhere near as good as they used to be. Try finding how to change a Transmission temp sensor!
Australia is bound to have an equivalent to Hylomar, just ask a mechanic or local car bits shop.
There are various ways of removing the injectors, one simple way is to take a pair of water pump pliers apart and use one half of them to lever it out. Or you can use a slide hammer. Many manage to get away with using the right sized Allen key.
Click to expand...

Getting a Haynes soon for the Disco 2 Td5 - should arrive from the UK hopefully tomorrow. Postage generally over here is terrible at the moment with Covid delays and everything else - wait times are double/triple what they were - whole system constipated, especially if you're relying on ordinary mail.

I do have a Haynes for our Rover P6B!;):D

Okay, think I'll go with the swan neck pliers option you mentioned - the LR slide hammer costs a King's ransom and would probably take many weeks for delivery.

Not much luck with the Hylomar equivalent yet - it's an anaerobic sealant; maybe Loctite 574, but that costs an arm and a leg considering that's all I'll be using it for (only small amount needed).
 
Intestinalworm said:
Thanks for that, have RAVE on my laptop and expecting a copy of the Haynes manual tomorrow. Ordered all the bits and pieces (parts) I know of from Paddock Spares in the end - hopefully I'll have them in a week or two from now (being posted to Australia)
Click to expand...

There's also an online version of the Haynes manual - https://haynes.com/en-gb/land-rover/discovery/1999-2000-25-diesel-40359

Intestinalworm said:
1. With the removal of the injectors, I don't have an injector removal tool - very expensive for what it is! Any (safe!) alternative/s or options? I assume replacing the injectors is easy - they just push back in to seal?
Click to expand...

You don't need to remove the injectors to replace the HG. But if you're also replacing the sealing washers, you can use the pliers method as Stanleysteamer suggested, shown also in this video clip -

Intestinalworm said:
2. Assume I don't need any sealant for any gaskets, except for the back of the cam cover gasket half-moon? Notice STC 4600 recommended (Hylomar 3400 anaerobic sealant). Again, this is quite expensive (only need a small amount) and can't be shipped from the UK in any case; is there an alternative - I heard Loctite 574, but again, not exactly cheap!
Click to expand...

I always use Loctite SI 5980 for these applications. It never failed and a 100ml tube can be bought for just Euro 10 over here. I also allow 24hrs curing time for any sealant that may come into contact with oil, fuel, heat or pressure.

Intestinalworm said:
Someone I know said to just put a new LR genuine gasket on (same as previous - 1 hole), new LR genuine bolts, and not bother about machining the head unless there is an obvious issue?! He said with the age/mileage it is likely just an expected fine crack of the head gasket that was allowing exhaust gas to get into the coolant and pressurise it (stopped for now with the the Rislone - dissolved sodium silicate hardens to a hard glass when exposed to hot exhaust).
Click to expand...

Through inspection, you should be able to see the markings where Rislone bonded with the metal quite easily which hopefully would just be on the gasket. But I would still check the head for straightness with a straight edge and a feeler gauge. And if all checks out, I would be confident enough to proceed with the installation -
 
Intestinalworm said:
Getting a Haynes soon for the Disco 2 Td5 - should arrive from the UK hopefully tomorrow. Postage generally over here is terrible at the moment with Covid delays and everything else - wait times are double/triple what they were - whole system constipated, especially if you're relying on ordinary mail.

I do have a Haynes for our Rover P6B!;):D

Okay, think I'll go with the swan neck pliers option you mentioned - the LR slide hammer costs a King's ransom and would probably take many weeks for delivery.

Not much luck with the Hylomar equivalent yet - it's an anaerobic sealant; maybe Loctite 574, but that costs an arm and a leg considering that's all I'll be using it for (only small amount needed).
Click to expand...
You don't have to buy a LR slide hammer, any slide hammer would do provided you could find a way to connect it to what you want to remove.
 
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