Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
Main issue now is getting a torque wrench with the right setting . I have two, one with max of 10 Newtons and one with a min of 26 newtons! Very annoying
Alibro
Well-Known Member
LOL, I bought one for my first HG with a lowest setting of 30Nm and ended up turning the knob to where I guessed 20 was. Bought another for my second which goes down to 10 or 15 but needed to get a 3/4" to 1/4" adapter. Thankfully my socket set had a 3/4" to 1/2" adapter already.
I'm not convinced it is as crucial as people make out for the head bolts as a lot of people give them an extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn anyway. It seems to make a difference if you use an elastomer or MLS gasket how tight the bolts will be. On the MLS gasket I fitted I easily added a 1/4 turn after the initial 180deg +180. I then went round each bolt with a torque wrench to confirm they were all the same. With the elastomer gasket I used on the second head the bolts were so tight I don't think I managed the full 180 second time.
B34R
Active Member
When you do the torques remember to go around three times.
A lot of people cock up head gaskets by only taking the bolts to a torque stage once which doesn't work.
The correct three step process is actually 5:
1: Torque all bolts in sequence to first stage torque
2: without slackening bolts, torque all bolts in sequence to first stage torque
3: repeat 2
4: do first angle turn on bolts in sequence
5: do second angle turn on bolts in sequence
Failing to do this will result in head bolt uneaven pressure. By the time youve got all of the bolts torqued down after the first run, the first couple are loose again due to the first stage compression on the gasket. Keep going round until youve got even torque and only then angle tighten!
Seen so many loose centre head bolts because of this
A lot of people cock up head gaskets by only taking the bolts to a torque stage once which doesn't work.
The correct three step process is actually 5:
1: Torque all bolts in sequence to first stage torque
2: without slackening bolts, torque all bolts in sequence to first stage torque
3: repeat 2
4: do first angle turn on bolts in sequence
5: do second angle turn on bolts in sequence
Failing to do this will result in head bolt uneaven pressure. By the time youve got all of the bolts torqued down after the first run, the first couple are loose again due to the first stage compression on the gasket. Keep going round until youve got even torque and only then angle tighten!
Seen so many loose centre head bolts because of this
Alibro
Well-Known Member
I know I didn't follow the procedures 100% when I did mine and I really should have gone out and bought a suitable torque wrench at the time but I figured by going round all the bolts again at the end and ensuring they were at the same torque I wouldn't be too far wrong.
Ain't no way any bolts will be loose on my second go though as I was more concerned I might break the bolts than they might be loose. I was very surprised at the difference between torquing down an elastomer compared to a MLS gasket.
Ain't no way any bolts will be loose on my second go though as I was more concerned I might break the bolts than they might be loose. I was very surprised at the difference between torquing down an elastomer compared to a MLS gasket.
B34R
Active Member
So long as you've hit the point of elasticity in the bolts you'll be fine. Because of the way these head bolts work, once you've hit a certain point they don't actually apply any more force to the head, they just stretch like an elastic band. Adding 1/4 turn on these won't actually make much of a difference to clamping force, but guarantees that you've at least hit elasticity.
The exception is when you use the later type bolts, care must be taken with these as they're a lot stronger than the originals and hit elasticity much earlier - if you torque them round to the 2x 180 point they'll be leaning towards exceeding elasticity and permanently stretching. Game over as once this happens you've lost all the clamping force.
Be careful with which bolts you have, there's a reason that the SAIC kit in particular recommends far less than 2x 180.
(Btw, I always split the 2x angle tighten into 4x smaller chunks - less stress on the head and less likely to turn it into a banana!)
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
the heads on, no issues, already to go, refilled with coolant and found its now leaking from the metal pipe and the thermostat housing. so annoyed. now i have to wait till morning to sort it out. last thing i needed. wanted it sorted today. also that sealant you suggested. does it ever dry as its been on there for 2 days now and its still wet.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to the anaerobic sealant for the cam ladder? if so I'm not sure, I don't remember any oozing out when I did mine but the whole point of it is it won't go hard in the oil so I guess it won't in air either.
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
Yes, I've done a bit a googling and found that it cures when starved of oxygen. It seems we are now mobile. If anyone ever needs a o ring for the original thermostat housing. Wilkinson sell the right size in part of a multi set! I went for drive today, Little bit of the m25 included. Pulls much better, sounds smoother too. WAs a touch rough on first stArt up but cleared in a min and then ran well. No over heating, system pressurised etc. one thing I did notice though was the coolant is darker and some sediment in the bottle. I haven't lost any coolant as far as I can see, is it just muck left in the system that's getting dislodged? I want to flush it through with a flush agent but I had to get the coolant from halfrauds and it was extortionate.
Alibro
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the system will be full of muck. Some peeps put dishwater tablets (crushed first of course) into the system for a day or two to clean it out, if yours is really bad it might be worth trying.
Well done though. It's a good feeling doing a headgasket for the first time.
Pity about the paranoia for the next six months though.
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
Dishwasher tablets!?!? Are you mad?
Yeah it's
Pretty minging, I've got no emulsion or anything so I'm hoping the HGC has worked but the grimy deposits and discoloured coolant after a 15 mile run has annoyed me. Especially with the company being 20 quid a 5 l bottle at halfords. My issue is I don't have access to a hose and the removal of the bottom rad hose is a pig ad the worst part of the work I've had to do. I'm gonna leave it a few days and if it gets worse flush it out.
Yeah it's
Pretty minging, I've got no emulsion or anything so I'm hoping the HGC has worked but the grimy deposits and discoloured coolant after a 15 mile run has annoyed me. Especially with the company being 20 quid a 5 l bottle at halfords. My issue is I don't have access to a hose and the removal of the bottom rad hose is a pig ad the worst part of the work I've had to do. I'm gonna leave it a few days and if it gets worse flush it out.
stannswhite
Well-Known Member
well done adam you aint half been put through the mill
with the car,not taking the **** mate but on initial post
the answer is YES,you deserve a medal fella..
with the car,not taking the **** mate but on initial post
the answer is YES,you deserve a medal fella.
.Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
First big test will be Friday as I now have to drive to Devon from Essex and back. Hopefully it will be no drama but will be packing a tool kit and few spare items. Still got a way to go. Got to sort out the track rod ends, drop links and ball joints. It's wrecked my hands though. Last few days I've woken up with sore joints. Hopefully it will pass and it's not early on set of old age. Any recommendations on the dishwasher liquid?
B34R
Active Member
I'd be a bit careful with what you flush the system out with, I think the dishwasher option is fine so long as you don't leave it in there for a day or two and clean it out thoroughly afterwards.
The head gaskets and alloys are very twitchy about having corrosive substances up against them
If there wasn't a lot of oil in the coolant, I'd give it a week or two before you deal with the scum, most of it will have floated up to the expansion tank by then anyway where it can be skimmed off/ditched for minimal penalty. How much oil was in the cooling system when the gasket blew? If it was going full mayonnaise it has to be removed pretty quickly as it destroys hoses.
The head gaskets and alloys are very twitchy about having corrosive substances up against them
If there wasn't a lot of oil in the coolant, I'd give it a week or two before you deal with the scum, most of it will have floated up to the expansion tank by then anyway where it can be skimmed off/ditched for minimal penalty. How much oil was in the cooling system when the gasket blew? If it was going full mayonnaise it has to be removed pretty quickly as it destroys hoses.
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
The gasket as far as I'm aware hadn't gone but it was the original. The system was very dirty. I've replaced the hoses all but the two that go to the heater matrix. I think I'll do as you say, I'll give it a week and clean the bottle. I've had just about enough of working on this car now.
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
Well the celebrations lasts long. I've got home today after being at work to find the coolant lower than I left it. Top it up, start the engine. And low and behold steam comes off the engine. Look in from underneath to find coolant is leaking from the from of the engine between the gasket and head, possibly gasket and shim. Tried to re tighten the head bolts and it has tightened them a touch and slowed the leak, but it's leaking all the same. So angry. Need the car this Friday to drive to devon. Don't know how I'm gonna manage that now. Close to just pouring k seal in. Advice, help, guidance needed
Alibro
Well-Known Member
If you can face doing it again a Payen BW750 gasket would be a better bet if something is a little out of tolerance. It is what I used as I wanted to buy the gasket kit before I took the head off and it is more tolerant of imperfections in the head and block.
Sorry but you asked.
Just had a thought. You sure it isn't coming from the manifold?
Sorry but you asked.
Just had a thought. You sure it isn't coming from the manifold?
Adam Gorsuch
Active Member
I know I'm gonna need to do it again. At least I know how to do it now. So it should be quicker.
I know my last head wasn't leaking so that's a positive. The Haynes says the cam ladder can't be interchanged though. I don't see why?!? Especially it ifs sealed with sealant. I'm gutted. I'm not sure if I'm even gonna have time to get it done now by Friday as I'm working none stop till then. If I had leave available I would take tomorrow of and just smash it. I think the best option would be to go for the original gasket type and put my old head back on with the cam ladder from the new head etc. I'm so fed up.
I know my last head wasn't leaking so that's a positive. The Haynes says the cam ladder can't be interchanged though. I don't see why?!? Especially it ifs sealed with sealant. I'm gutted. I'm not sure if I'm even gonna have time to get it done now by Friday as I'm working none stop till then. If I had leave available I would take tomorrow of and just smash it. I think the best option would be to go for the original gasket type and put my old head back on with the cam ladder from the new head etc. I'm so fed up.
