Arctic2

Arctic2

Well-Known Member
On Friday i will doing a leak back test on a friends FL1 TD4 which he recently bought, he's changed the oil filter and oil, changed out the PCV filter which had been fitted upside down how they managed to do that i don't know.

The manifold and EGR have been changed out with clean MAP, clean air filter, turbo little filter, yet to check the MAF, also remove the EGR hose before to see if it makes any difference to the turbo, but it's looking likely the injectors are at fault.
 
andyfreelandy said:
High pressure pump.can blow vapour into timing cover and hence crankcase and burn it.
Click to expand...
Hi Andy.
Yes that's also an avenue which I'm hoping it's not if so i will have to remove it and replace all the seals, done that a few times.

I did have three spare HPFP at one stage now i have none o_O

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fingers crossed.
 
Ok so Friday i removed the injectors, all but one anyway which was stuck solid, so it got soaked over last weekend, and managed to remove it yesterday with slide hammer, only to find all black oily carbon stuck to it and the walls of the injector port.

Over last weekend the three injectors i managed to get out had the tips removed and cleaned, new copper washers, and new seals, they were all Lucas injectors so they have been out before FL1 TD4 mileage is 113,435.

The injector removed yesterday was a Bosch one and looked to be the problem, leak back test was carried out and over 2mins on idling, injectors 3+4 had 4ml 1+2 25ml

Anyways after a big clean up of the stuck injector and it's post new copper washer and seal, all injectors put back in, started it up and all was fine ticking over nicely, until you drove it, then the white smoke was back again.

So no better off, checked MAF out of spec a little 423mg-465mg on tick over as opposed to 500mg so unplugged MAF no change.

I am or the owner is now thinking of swapping out all the injectors for four known good ones from a Rover 75, now i have never done this but am almost sure you can, if you are changing them all.

Any ideas or good info is really welcome, regarding white smoke continuing.

Friday will see another leak back test and Hawkeye diagnosis performed.
 
Arctic2 said:
Ok so Friday i removed the injectors, all but one anyway which was stuck solid, so it got soaked over last weekend, and managed to remove it yesterday with slide hammer, only to find all black oily carbon stuck to it and the walls of the injector port.

Over last weekend the three injectors i managed to get out had the tips removed and cleaned, new copper washers, and new seals, they were all Lucas injectors so they have been out before FL1 TD4 mileage is 113,435.

The injector removed yesterday was a Bosch one and looked to be the problem, leak back test was carried out and over 2mins on idling, injectors 3+4 had 4ml 1+2 25ml

Anyways after a big clean up of the stuck injector and it's post new copper washer and seal, all injectors put back in, started it up and all was fine ticking over nicely, until you drove it, then the white smoke was back again.

So no better off, checked MAF out of spec a little 423mg-465mg on tick over as opposed to 500mg so unplugged MAF no change.

I am or the owner is now thinking of swapping out all the injectors for four known good ones from a Rover 75, now i have never done this but am almost sure you can, if you are changing them all.

Any ideas or good info is really welcome, regarding white smoke continuing.

Friday will see another leak back test and Hawkeye diagnosis performed.
Click to expand...

Assume all the boost hoses are ok on it?
… or maybe it is pointing to the HPFP as Andy says?

I don’t think the F1 injectors need coding.
 
Freddie17 said:
Assume all the boost hoses are ok on it?
… or maybe it is pointing to the HPFP as Andy says?

I don’t think the F1 injectors need coding.
Click to expand...
Hi Freddie.
Yes all boost hoses look to be in decent condition although they are old now, and personally if the FL1 was mine i would be changing them.

The one to the EGR was split but changed out before removing the injectors.

The owner today contacted me saying he drove the car for a good few miles today, no smoke in the lower range from 1000rev to 2000, but once reaching 2500, -3000 in bellows out smoke like a James bond car trying shake off it's pursuer :eek:

He will give it a few more runs to see if it clears but doubt it's going too.

I'm still convinced it's an injector, but if anyone knows another reason please let me/us know your views.
 
andyfreelandy said:
Looking like the HP seals?? Very like the one I had that went.
Click to expand...
Hi Andy.
I think you are correct and looks like we will be going down that road later in the week or early next week, when i can find the time to remove it.

I will of cause keep this thread updated thank you to all whom are taking interest and posting.
 
What I can't help with is what happened to the HP pump pressure. You would think it would drop when spraying out the front, but whether it would be measurable.

Have you done HP figures at say 2000 and 3000 rpm and compared with a working TD4 ??
 
andyfreelandy said:
What I can't help with is what happened to the HP pump pressure. You would think it would drop when spraying out the front, but whether it would be measurable.

Have you done HP figures at say 2000 and 3000 rpm and compared with a working TD4 ??
Click to expand...
Hi Andy.
No not done any figures, or measurements as of yet, thing is it starts on the button, ticks over fantastic, sounds good, the oil is not getting any higher, it only starts smoking when it reaches 2000-2500 when revved, worse when you get 3000, when driving it, will rev up to 4000 easy but smoke is terrible.
 
Arctic2 said:
Hi Andy.
No not done any figures, or measurements as of yet, thing is it starts on the button, ticks over fantastic, sounds good, the oil is not getting any higher, it only starts smoking when it reaches 2000-2500 when revved, worse when you get 3000, when driving it, will rev up to 4000 easy but smoke is terrible.
Click to expand...
Think I would change the all the boost hoses before changing the injectors I had one that looked okay but was old and I think it was allowing air to pass through it at higher pressures, look for oil under the hoses, smoke at higher revs is normally lack of air? will a leak off test show you anything if it runs okay at tick over? always hard to get to bottom of problems
 
Ian M in France said:
Think I would change the all the boost hoses before changing the injectors I had one that looked okay but was old and I think it was allowing air to pass through it at higher pressures, look for oil under the hoses, smoke at higher revs is normally lack of air? will a leak off test show you anything if it runs okay at tick over? always hard to get to bottom of problems
Click to expand...
Already done a leak back test, which showed injector 3 + 4 leaking removed them all cleaned the tips, added new washers, and seals, number 3 proved to be a bugger to get out, slide hammer needed, got it out eventually, covered in black oily carbon, the ports walls were also caked in carbon, this had to be removed, washer was stuck to the base that took at least an hour to clean out and remove the coppers washer, 1-2-4 injectors were all Lucas, number 3 was a Bosch looked like someone had been there before and could not remove injector 3.

All fitted back but still smokes, so that is where I/we are now, am going to check and possibly change, all boost hoses, hook up the Hawkeye again, do another leak back test, and go from there once again.
 
Arctic2 said:
Already done a leak back test, which showed injector 3 + 4 leaking removed them all cleaned the tips, added new washers, and seals, number 3 proved to be a bugger to get out, slide hammer needed, got it out eventually, covered in black oily carbon, the ports walls were also caked in carbon, this had to be removed, washer was stuck to the base that took at least an hour to clean out and remove the coppers washer, 1-2-4 injectors were all Lucas, number 3 was a Bosch looked like someone had been there before and could not remove injector 3.

All fitted back but still smokes, so that is where I/we are now, am going to check and possibly change, all boost hoses, hook up the Hawkeye again, do another leak back test, and go from there once again.
Click to expand...
Changed all 4 of our injectors for recon units last year , got them from a place in Germany, sure they where under 300€ in all, I think 2 had a problem and as it has done 270 000 KM and was 18 years old, but as in good order (and is main car) it would be good to not have any other problems with them for a bit, ours had had problems starting but ran okay, changing injectors sorted problem and it did also run better and seems to use a bit less fuel. The body is in good order and it has had a easy life so plan to keep it for as long as I can so spending a bit on it is okay,I tend to get all the tools out I need then take the car for a drive to get it hot then as quick as I can take the injectors out, have never had a problem getting a injector out but may have been luck so far
 
Ok so a quick update yesterday Friday 8th November 2024.

A diagnostic test was taken and the injectors now seem to be ok, also another leak back test showed all injectors over a 2min tick over only saw no more than 15ml in number 3-4 and 10ml in 1-2 injectors.

So the decision was taken to strip down the top of the engine, and to remove the HPFP seals have been ordered, at the same time intercooler hoses have been changed new EGR hose, I'm also going to modify the air intake by splitting it into two sections so you do not have to keep removing the EGR if you want to change the air filter.

Next report will be when the HPFP as been serviced refitted to see if it cures the smoke problem, from there it would be the Turbo which i think is ok.
 
andyfreelandy said:
Hope the HP sorts it.

Didn't understand the above??
Click to expand...
Hi Andy.
I intend to split the air intake duct into two pieces so that you do not have to keep removing the EGR hose just to change the air filter, i will take a few photos later today and post them up.

If it's not the HPFP then I'm worrying it maybe the turbo even though it seems ok.
 
I usually just lift air cleaner lid off and let the joining plastic come up in the air and uncouple. Perhaps shoddy !! Only on my cars. If doing a full service it all comes off anyway.
 
andyfreelandy said:
I usually just lift air cleaner lid off and let the joining plastic come up in the air and uncouple. Perhaps shoddy !! Only on my cars. If doing a full service it all comes off anyway.
Click to expand...
Andy nowts shoddy if it works, what i have done below, also help when you have to put a new EGR hose on because they are really tight to get on when new.

Remove the air duct.
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Mark your line of modification.
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Drill 6mm holes along your mark, making sure you leave a good lip on the air side of the ducting.
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The use a saw to cut through the holes, i used a plaster saw.
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Once separated it is ready to smooth the cut.
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I used a sand disc on my Bosch grinder.
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Nice and smooth.
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That's the intercooler side of the ducting done.

Now do the Air duct side smooth that nicely
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Now you drill three holes on the raised bumps on the ducting.
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You can now add three cable ties to join the ducting back together, you would only do this once it's back on the car, but i have done to show the end result.
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Job done, it should now be easy to remove either separately rather then one whole unit.
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Cheers Arctic.
 
Arctic2 said:
I'm still convinced it's an injector, but if anyone knows another reason please let me/us know your views.
Click to expand...
could be that rare occurrence of an over-fueling maf .. maybe ?
[ thinking of that due to rpm span mentioned ]

do you know what causes this 'grey' smoke ..
i.e. burning oil .. or a tad too rich on the fuel side ?

...........
on older pre-emission control / or pre-computer control diesels.
'grey' smoke was normal .. .. or 'black' 'till the turbo kicked in fully.
 
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