So if manufactures build stuff to last longer, and all the items we need to keep them running and reduced the amount they made, it would have a smaller carbon foot print and be greener
even the International News, showed them blowing up a Tesla, because the new battery it needed was far more than the car was worth,and we are currently in a situation were second hand cars are going up in value due to reduced manufacturing out put, .... so my old banger may now be worth more than the fuel in the tank!!!!
 
potus said:
Who funds the company who produced the independant report I wonder,...
Click to expand...

The same could be said for any pro-fossil fuel reports too, as the fossil fuel industry has enormous resources to "bend" reports in any direction they like. ;)
 
frostythor said:
News, showed them blowing up a Tesla, because the new battery it needed was far more than the car was worth
Click to expand...

As usual, the news missed vital details.
The Tesla in question wasn't new, it was almost 10 years old, done over 160,000 km and the replacement battery was about the same cost as the vehicle was worth, which was is Finland, where the battery was more expensive than it would have been if the vehicle was in America.

All the expensive and fully functioning drive and internal components were removed and sold, so the value of the vehicle was covered, this excluded any YouTube revenues, which would have been substantial for this video. ;)

For reference, have you seen the price of a new V6 diesel for a D3/4?
 
Nodge68 said:
Miles out.
A new Nissan Leaf is carbon neutral in under 4 years, compared to a conventional ICE vehicle, when charging by the UK national grid, and it definitely doesn't need a new battery in a 150k miles vehicle life.
View attachment 262844
Click to expand...
This works on the idea the electric is green, which it isn't, only 40% is green in UK, add that to the table and there is no savings in CO2,as more people have electric cars more will need to be made, mainly using gas, most charge there cars at night so solar does not help much at the moment you are better of fitting solar panels or changing your heating to electric if you have the right sort of house if you want to be green
 
Nodge68 said:
The same could be said for any pro-fossil fuel reports too, as the fossil fuel industry has enormous resources to "bend" reports in any direction they like. ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly....:), pinch of salt all of them. But I do like the report Volvo produced, fairly balanced lreport ooking at fossil and 'green' versions of their cars.
 
Ian M in France said:
This works on the idea the electric is green, which it isn't, only 40% is green in UK, add that to the table and there is no savings in CO2,as more people have electric cars more will need to be made, mainly using gas, most charge there cars at night so solar does not help much at the moment you are better of fitting solar panels or changing your heating to electric if you have the right sort of house if you want to be green
Click to expand...

You're working things out wrong.
The UK power grid is close to 50% renewables, but that doesn't mean charging an EV is only 50% green compared to an ICE vehicle.
An ICE engine is massively inefficient, like a maximum of 30% efficient on the most efficient vehicle, the rest of the energy burned in an engine is simply turned into heat. Now take onto consideration that getting the fuel into the vehicle is also very carbon heavy, dropping the effective efficiency of the very best 30% efficient engine to under 15%, actually closer to an equivalent of 12% efficient.

Now the UK power grid largely burns gas as it's carbon producing fuel source.
However as an average gas power station is around 90% efficient, it doesn't take a genius to work out, that charging an EV on industrial gas generation, is still massively more efficient than burning fuel in an engine, and all the inefficiencies that obtaining that fuel creates.
 
Nodge68 said:
You're working things out wrong.
The UK power grid is close to 50% renewables, but that doesn't mean charging an EV is only 50% green compared to an ICE vehicle.
An ICE engine is massively inefficient, like a maximum of 30% efficient on the most efficient vehicle, the rest of the energy burned in an engine is simply turned into heat. Now take onto consideration that getting the fuel into the vehicle is also very carbon heavy, dropping the effective efficiency of the very best 30% efficient engine to under 15%, actually closer to an equivalent of 12% efficient.

Now the UK power grid largely burns gas as it's carbon producing fuel source.
However as an average gas power station is around 90% efficient, it doesn't take a genius to work out, that charging an EV on industrial gas generation, is still massively more efficient than burning fuel in an engine, and all the inefficiencies that obtaining that fuel creates.
Click to expand...
Burning fuel in the car and using a heat pump to heat your house is a greener option a heat pump gives you 2.5 to 3.5 times as much out as you put in a electric gives about 60 to 85% back what you put in there is then losses in the motors, if you have to heat the car it is not a by-product like a ice car you have to use power,
I am not saying that I would never buy a electric car but it has taken the ice over a hundred years to get where it is, maybe in 20 or 30 years the electric car might be as good as a ice car of today
 
Ian M in France said:
Burning fuel in the car and using a heat pump to heat your house is a greener option a heat pump gives you 2.5 to 3.5 times as much out as you put in a electric gives about 60 to 85% back what you put in there is then losses in the motors, if you have to heat the car it is not a by-product like a ice car you have to use power,
I am not saying that I would never buy a electric car but it has taken the ice over a hundred years to get where it is, maybe in 20 or 30 years the electric car might be as good as a ice car of today
Click to expand...
Hi, two new bungalows were built (sold for £700,000 each & finished to a high standard, nothing to do with me I hasten to add as I opposed them) on a small piece of land at the bottom of my garden under two years ago & both fitted with heat pumps & when talking to one of the owners over the garden fence during a cold snap a couple of months ago, she commented on how crap,her words, the heat pump heating was on it's own & it needed the underfloor heating electric or gas (not sure how it's powered) to keep it warm, even when it's not a minus day!
The climate seems to be changing but until we can get 100% 'green' energy, never mind all that offset cobblers, the government(s) I feel are taking us for a ride with ill thought out ideas because down my road alone parking is a major problem & half of the car owners won't be able to charge their vehicles over night (flats etc). So lets insulate houses better, make it compulsory to put solar panels on every new build (which we should have been doing for at least the last 20 years anyway, then maybe we wouldn't be in half this mess) & leave vehicle ownership choices, ICE, electric or other to the individuals.
On that note, me ales run out & it's time to start on the red wine:):):) what do I know.
 
Andy Warren said:
when talking to one of the owners over the garden fence during a cold snap a couple of months ago, she commented on how crap,her words, the heat pump heating was on it's own & it needed the underfloor heating electric or gas (not sure how it's powered) to keep it warm
Click to expand...

Heat pumps come in different outputs, and the higher output, the more they cost.
I've just done the calculations for an air source heat pump in one of my school outside classrooms.
You wouldn't believe how expensive they are, I'm talking 4 X the price of a good oil boiler (the current heating source) and the output of the HP is only ¼ of the current boiler.
So 4 times the financial outlay for ¼ of the heating capacity is poor at best. Because of this, I don't believe there will be many takers of this rather expensive and underperforming heat source.

Ground source is much better, but requires a large amount of ground area, and the costs are stupidly high, something like 4 times as much as air source, as so much ground work is needed for installation.
 
Andy Warren said:
Hi, two new bungalows were built (sold for £700,000 each & finished to a high standard, nothing to do with me I hasten to add as I opposed them) on a small piece of land at the bottom of my garden under two years ago & both fitted with heat pumps & when talking to one of the owners over the garden fence during a cold snap a couple of months ago, she commented on how crap,her words, the heat pump heating was on it's own & it needed the underfloor heating electric or gas (not sure how it's powered) to keep it warm, even when it's not a minus day!
The climate seems to be changing but until we can get 100% 'green' energy, never mind all that offset cobblers, the government(s) I feel are taking us for a ride with ill thought out ideas because down my road alone parking is a major problem & half of the car owners won't be able to charge their vehicles over night (flats etc). So lets insulate houses better, make it compulsory to put solar panels on every new build (which we should have been doing for at least the last 20 years anyway, then maybe we wouldn't be in half this mess) & leave vehicle ownership choices, ICE, electric or other to the individuals.
On that note, me ales run out & it's time to start on the red wine:):):) what do I know.
Click to expand...
A good heat pump with the right setup is cheap to run and works well the problem is poor installation or not the right thing for the job, a new house should work, they work best with low temp under floor heating, you should get 3.5 kw for every 1 kw in 90% of the time if you are not too far north, here 90% of new homes use them.
In older houses with rads they are okay but you may need to have larger rads fitted.
 
Nodge68 said:
Heat pumps come in different outputs, and the higher output, the more they cost.
I've just done the calculations for an air source heat pump in one of my school outside classrooms.
You wouldn't believe how expensive they are, I'm talking 4 X the price of a good oil boiler (the current heating source) and the output of the HP is only ¼ of the current boiler.
So 4 times the financial outlay for ¼ of the heating capacity is poor at best. Because of this, I don't believe there will be many takers of this rather expensive and underperforming heat source.

Ground source is much better, but requires a large amount of ground area, and the costs are stupidly high, something like 4 times as much as air source, as so much ground work is needed for installation.
Click to expand...
Really heat pump not right for that kind of installation, I would look at a pellet boiler, expensive to buy but cheap to run,
 
Nodge68 said:
Heat pumps come in different outputs, and the higher output, the more they cost.
I've just done the calculations for an air source heat pump in one of my school outside classrooms.
You wouldn't believe how expensive they are, I'm talking 4 X the price of a good oil boiler (the current heating source) and the output of the HP is only ¼ of the current boiler.
So 4 times the financial outlay for ¼ of the heating capacity is poor at best. Because of this, I don't believe there will be many takers of this rather expensive and underperforming heat source.

Ground source is much better, but requires a large amount of ground area, and the costs are stupidly high, something like 4 times as much as air source, as so much ground work is needed for installation.
Click to expand...
That's a coincidence you mention school as I work at our local primary which is due to be converted from gas boilers to heat pump heating. We are in the process of gathering quotes & one company I showed round said the units were 1x3x2 (wxdxh) & we need two of them. He also pointed out they make quite a hum & ideally need placing away from any neighbouring houses. I mentioned my neighbours comments about their bungalow & he said he hears more comments about HP's being poor than good but as you've pointed out HP's are v. expensive & not as good as gas/oil. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
 
Andy Warren said:
That's a coincidence you mention school as I work at our local primary which is due to be converted from gas boilers to heat pump heating. We are in the process of gathering quotes & one company I showed round said the units were 1x3x2 (wxdxh) & we need two of them. He also pointed out they make quite a hum & ideally need placing away from any neighbouring houses. I mentioned my neighbours comments about their bungalow & he said he hears more comments about HP's being poor than good but as you've pointed out HP's are v. expensive & not as good as gas/oil. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with oil or gas and I would have installed a oil boiler 5 years ago if I was asked what is best if you do not have gas
New oil boiler installations have been band here, gas will follow soon, I would never say taking out a good working gas or oil boiler was the right thing to do, but when they come to the end of there life it will be time for a change
options are electric or electric heat pumps , pellets or wood, wood is a lot of work but good, pellet is cheapest to run and boiler runs in same way as oil or gas, but hopper system and storage is problem,
Heat pumps are clean have flue to install and plumbers here like installing them as there is most profit for least work, can be a problem in very cold weather and if system is not designed right
 
frostythor said:
I think this post has gone off track a bit, as it about is my car green due to fact is old and not been replaced with newer more expensive cars,....not heat pumps
Click to expand...
Yes we have gone off track, but being green is more than just what car you drive, most of the people on here who drive older land rovers I would think do not heat there house 29 deg, do not fly off for weekends away once a month, tend to fix something instead of throwing it away, we may burn a bit more fuel to get about but that does not make us the planets number one enemy
 
9k=.jpg
 
Andy Warren said:
That's a coincidence you mention school as I work at our local primary which is due to be converted from gas boilers to heat pump heating.
Click to expand...
I'm the site manager (flashy title for caretaker!) for a local 480 student primary school.

Because it's in a rural location, we heat the main school and outside classrooms with oil fired boilers. Up until the recent price rises, this has been an ecceptable if not exactly green heat source.

However the boiler on one of the outside classrooms has sprung a leak, and so we're now investigating greener heat sources. Unfortunately with a limited maintenance budget, green is likely out of the question at the moment, so I may well end up repairing the boiler, until a lower cost alternative comes along.
 
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