Good job the dizzy I have ordered has vac-advance then. ;) What is on there now does not. :(
I don't think the carb float/valve is goosed because there is no petrol coming out of the plumbed-in overflow so I guess it must be shutting off like it should. I will put the new dizzy on and see what happens, I think the needle in the carb is BBE/D but I have no idea whether that's appropriate or not. I will hoik it out to check. :)
Needles are a whole new can of worms, they is thick for economy and thin for power, you want a tapered one , thick at top and thi at bottom, I never bothered with numbers, just got one that looked about right and filed it to suit, Mini engine very basic, give it fuel and it goes, more fuel and it goes faster :D
 
Needles are a whole new can of worms, they is thick for economy and thin for power, you want a tapered one , thick at top and thi at bottom, I never bothered with numbers, just got one that looked about right and filed it to suit, Mini engine very basic, give it fuel and it goes, more fuel and it goes faster :D
Tuning the carb while driving down the road with the speedo removed was always fun.purpose built big hole
to do this… who needs a rolling road in the 80s
 
Cam is stamped on the end so could take timing gear off and have a look
Thinking about it, and rereading the book, this isn't always the case, sometimes it's a question of counting rings further along the shaft, and stuff like that.
Which is why, if he can be bovvad, he could use a DTI on the ends of the rods that ride on the cam followers, or that end of the rocker, which would be more approximate still, possibly too much so, and tie this in with the position on the crankshaft pulley, to give him an idea of lift and cam lobe angles.
 
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Thinking about it, and rereading the book, this isn't always the case, sometimes it's a question of counting rings further along the shaft, and stuff like that.
Which is why, if he can be bovvad, he could use a DTI on the ends of the rods that ride on the cam followers, or that end of the rocker, which would be more approximate still, possibly too much so, and tie this in with the position on the crankshaft pulley, to give him an idea of lift and cam lobe angles.
Quick update:
Yes I can be bovva'd I have a dti and/or a digital vernier to measure how far the cam/pushrod/rocker pushes the valve down. :)
I wonder if there is a table of "if it does this amount of valve opening then it means its an"XYZ" cam". I know it is not just the cam "lift" that is involved and also the cam timing and overlap (if any).
My new Dizzy has arrived :) ..... but so has the pouring rain. :( So no playtime today probably.
Still waiting on some new HT leads and the vac-advance line and its end caps to appear, but that's not a reason not to get started, just incidental. It is not going anywhere (literally).

Further updates as and when I promise. :D
 
My new Dizzy has arrived :)

And I have now found that you went for elecy dizzy, so some of my earlier comments may not count.

As for cam data have a look at this


Kent probably do them too.

But right now I think that's the least of your worries. Regardless of cam it should run (maybe a bit lumpy at idle) but it should run and drive ok.

J
 
Quick update:
Yes I can be bovva'd I have a dti and/or a digital vernier to measure how far the cam/pushrod/rocker pushes the valve down. :)
It is not how far it pushes the valve down that matters, it is how far the cam lobe pushes the push rod up. The rocker is unlikely to be exactly centred between the push rod and the valve and also any wear in the rocker will enter into the equation.
So you need to remove the rocker gear and just work with the tops of the push rods.
Then you'll get the height when the push rod is "idle" and as it moves up until it reaches the summit of the lobe, that will give you something like the lift. I doubt the lifter is riding the back of the cam. Unlike a roller cam on an OHC engine.
It'll be interesting to see what you get, and the angle the cam moves through from just opening to just closing again.
Then if you do it on an inlet and then an exhaust, you'll have the angle between the two fully open positions, thus the lobe centres. This will also tell you the overlap.
In your book all this is covered on pages 336 /337 as you know. You'll then be able to relate it to the chart on pages 264/5 and 290. But this doesn't cover any of the wilder/special grinds made by Kent, Piper, etc.
It'll be a bit awkward marking these on the edge of the crankshaft pulley wheel but for the moment I cannot think of an easier way of doing it, unless you have a 360 deg protractor. You can get these from cam manufacturers which is where I got mine. Or you can print one off from tinternet and make your own.

That said, if you do measure how far the valves move up and down it'll possibly tell you if you have trick rockers, some are 1.5 for instance.
Putting these measurements on a Mini forum might elicit a response.
if you are able to put reliable figures into an Excel spreadsheet you could then use this to draw graphs of cam lift etc.

When I was building my Pinto engine I spent ages on this because I wanted a cam that would pull right off the blocks. I didn't want to have a car that only "came on the cam" at 3000 revs and then went nuts. In the end I opted for a "high torque" cam which wasn't usually used for anything except automatics and towing. But it gave me what I needed. Especially combined with a skimmed head and a better exhaust.
 
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Quick update:
Yes I can be bovva'd I have a dti and/or a digital vernier to measure how far the cam/pushrod/rocker pushes the valve down. :)
I wonder if there is a table of "if it does this amount of valve opening then it means its an"XYZ" cam". I know it is not just the cam "lift" that is involved and also the cam timing and overlap (if any).
My new Dizzy has arrived :) ..... but so has the pouring rain. :( So no playtime today probably.
Still waiting on some new HT leads and the vac-advance line and its end caps to appear, but that's not a reason not to get started, just incidental. It is not going anywhere (literally).

Further updates as and when I promise. :D
Yes the tables are in your book, more or less on pages 284/5 and 290, with explanations as to how to do all this in those three chapters. Cam lift is the line across the page about 3/4 of the way down but as you can see quite a few different cams had the same lift, or lifts cos inlets can be different from exhausts.
Obvs not all the cams ever ground for A series engines are on those charts, but the figures should give you some idea.
 
And I have now found that you went for elecy dizzy, so some of my earlier comments may not count.

As for cam data have a look at this


Kent probably do them too.

But right now I think that's the least of your worries. Regardless of cam it should run (maybe a bit lumpy at idle) but it should run and drive ok.

J
Nice find that chart. Well done!:):)
 
Well, the weather abated and I managed to take the old dizzy out and put a new one in. Good. :)
Really difficult to turn it over with a spanner on the alternator while putting pressure on the belt.
Now the dizzy has an offset key on its driveshaft so it will only go in one way so AFAIK it is not possible to put it in 180° out of phase (but maybe I am really clever and have managed to do this???).
I did persevere and manually spannered it over till the piston was rising and both #1 cylinder valves were closed and I could waggle the rockers and feel tappet clearance (so this should be where it should be preparing to fire). I looked at the timing markers and stopped the crank-pulley at about
Being an electronic dizzy I will need to follow what @Stanleysteamer said in post #12 I reckon.
Just for S's & G's I turned the ignition on and got herself to crank it over on the starter while I watched a spark-plug tester light on #1 plug (no lighting up at all) which made me think the coil is intermittently not working. I.e. it once ran on the old dizzy then it didn't and has steadfastly refused to start ever again since. So I sent my dear lady back indoors and into the warm.

Anyway, I got bored sitting there scratching my arse chin out there in the cold so packed everything up.
Just as a last WTH action I turned it over and it scared the bloody life out of me. "BANG!" .... I thought I had been shot.
I reckon the intermittent coil fired and it blew back through the inlet manifold/carb. Made me jump it did. LOL

So, next bit of clear weather I shall follow our Stan's advice and...
  1. "Connect a test lamp between coil (-) and earth.
  2. Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the desired timing marks line up.
  3. Loosen the distributor clamp so you can turn the distributor housing.
  4. Turn the ignition key to the RUN position and return to the distributor.
  5. Turn the distributor body COUNTERCLOCKWISE until the test lamp turns OFF.
  6. Turn the distributor another 10 to 20 degrees COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
  7. Now SLOWLY turn the distributor body CLOCKWISE... SLOWLY.
  8. STOP the instant the test lamp turns back ON.
  9. Lock the distributor down so it cannot turn and turn the ignition key to the OFF position.
With the test lamp wired between coil (-) and earth, it will turn OFF when your module is at the equivalent to "points closed" and the light will turn ON when the module is at the equivalent of "points open"."

But, as I don't have a test lamp, can I use a Voltmeter and look for the 12v between Coil -ve and earth as in step 1?
 
Well, the weather abated and I managed to take the old dizzy out and put a new one in. Good. :)
Really difficult to turn it over with a spanner on the alternator while putting pressure on the belt.
Now the dizzy has an offset key on its driveshaft so it will only go in one way so AFAIK it is not possible to put it in 180° out of phase (but maybe I am really clever and have managed to do this???).
I did persevere and manually spannered it over till the piston was rising and both #1 cylinder valves were closed and I could waggle the rockers and feel tappet clearance (so this should be where it should be preparing to fire). I looked at the timing markers and stopped the crank-pulley at about
Being an electronic dizzy I will need to follow what @Stanleysteamer said in post #12 I reckon.
Just for S's & G's I turned the ignition on and got herself to crank it over on the starter while I watched a spark-plug tester light on #1 plug (no lighting up at all) which made me think the coil is intermittently not working. I.e. it once ran on the old dizzy then it didn't and has steadfastly refused to start ever again since. So I sent my dear lady back indoors and into the warm.

Anyway, I got bored sitting there scratching my arse chin out there in the cold so packed everything up.
Just as a last WTH action I turned it over and it scared the bloody life out of me. "BANG!" .... I thought I had been shot.
I reckon the intermittent coil fired and it blew back through the inlet manifold/carb. Made me jump it did. LOL

So, next bit of clear weather I shall follow our Stan's advice and...
  1. "Connect a test lamp between coil (-) and earth.
  2. Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the desired timing marks line up.
  3. Loosen the distributor clamp so you can turn the distributor housing.
  4. Turn the ignition key to the RUN position and return to the distributor.
  5. Turn the distributor body COUNTERCLOCKWISE until the test lamp turns OFF.
  6. Turn the distributor another 10 to 20 degrees COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
  7. Now SLOWLY turn the distributor body CLOCKWISE... SLOWLY.
  8. STOP the instant the test lamp turns back ON.
  9. Lock the distributor down so it cannot turn and turn the ignition key to the OFF position.
With the test lamp wired between coil (-) and earth, it will turn OFF when your module is at the equivalent to "points closed" and the light will turn ON when the module is at the equivalent of "points open"."

But, as I don't have a test lamp, can I use a Voltmeter and look for the 12v between Coil -ve and earth as in step 1?
Yes you can, but you can make a test lamp from a side lamp bulb holder or similar.
But I think I would rather use the resistance meter or the circuit tester part of the meter.
 
I am sorry to report that there has been no progress. :(
Despite my best efforts I could get absolutely no indication of correct timing using the method outlined above.
I painstakingly (and it is a right pain) wound the engine over to 10° BTDC on a both valves closed compression stroke.
But nothing that I did in slowly rotating the distributor in either direction resulted in any indication of static timing having been set.
I had a solid 12V indicated across the primary winding -Ve side to ground at all times. Clearly there is something wrong with either the method or my execution of it.

But.... this still does not answer the question as to WHY I cannot get a static timing indication.

I have packed it in for the day as herself is unhappy at my preoccupation with it to the exclusion of anything else.
Much head-scratching to be done.
 
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I am sorry to report that there has been no progress. :(
Despite my best efforts I could get absolutely no indication of correct timing using the method outlined above.
I painstakingly (and it is a right pain) wound the engine over to 10° BTDC on a both valves closed compression stroke.
But nothing that I did in slowly rotating the distributor in either direction resulted in any indication of static timing having been set.
I had a solid 12V indicated across the primary winding -Ve side to ground at all times. Clearly there is something wrong with either the method or my execution of it.

But.... this still does not answer the question as to WHY I cannot get a static timing indication.

I have packed it in for the day as herself is unhappy at my preoccupation with it to the exclusion of anything else.
Much head-scratching to be done.
£20....
 
Well, the weather abated and I managed to take the old dizzy out and put a new one in. Good. :)
Really difficult to turn it over with a spanner on the alternator while putting pressure on the belt.
Now the dizzy has an offset key on its driveshaft so it will only go in one way so AFAIK it is not possible to put it in 180° out of phase (but maybe I am really clever and have managed to do this???).
I did persevere and manually spannered it over till the piston was rising and both #1 cylinder valves were closed and I could waggle the rockers and feel tappet clearance (so this should be where it should be preparing to fire). I looked at the timing markers and stopped the crank-pulley at about
Being an electronic dizzy I will need to follow what @Stanleysteamer said in post #12 I reckon.
Just for S's & G's I turned the ignition on and got herself to crank it over on the starter while I watched a spark-plug tester light on #1 plug (no lighting up at all) which made me think the coil is intermittently not working. I.e. it once ran on the old dizzy then it didn't and has steadfastly refused to start ever again since. So I sent my dear lady back indoors and into the warm.

Anyway, I got bored sitting there scratching my arse chin out there in the cold so packed everything up.
Just as a last WTH action I turned it over and it scared the bloody life out of me. "BANG!" .... I thought I had been shot.
I reckon the intermittent coil fired and it blew back through the inlet manifold/carb. Made me jump it did. LOL

So, next bit of clear weather I shall follow our Stan's advice and...
  1. "Connect a test lamp between coil (-) and earth.
  2. Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the desired timing marks line up.
  3. Loosen the distributor clamp so you can turn the distributor housing.
  4. Turn the ignition key to the RUN position and return to the distributor.
  5. Turn the distributor body COUNTERCLOCKWISE until the test lamp turns OFF.
  6. Turn the distributor another 10 to 20 degrees COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
  7. Now SLOWLY turn the distributor body CLOCKWISE... SLOWLY.
  8. STOP the instant the test lamp turns back ON.
  9. Lock the distributor down so it cannot turn and turn the ignition key to the OFF position.
With the test lamp wired between coil (-) and earth, it will turn OFF when your module is at the equivalent to "points closed" and the light will turn ON when the module is at the equivalent of "points open"."

But, as I don't have a test lamp, can I use a Voltmeter and look for the 12v between Coil -ve and earth as in step 1?

The dizzy might not be 180 out, but the leads could be ... 😂 😂
 
Well, it is still NO-GO. :(
I went back to square 1 and did everything again.
Maybe I am repeating the same mistake here time and time again?
I checked the old dizzy and its lead positions (because once upon a time this car was working).
The layout (looking at the top of the dizzy cap) was :
3____1
__K__
4___2

And so is the replacement.

No amount of rotation of the Dizzy in either direction produces either a change in a VM reading or a spark on the king lead or #1 plug lead (tried both).
So what if the new Dizzy is duff? Why not manually apply/remove 12v across the coil as a basic check I thought?
Tried that, there's +12v incoming on the LT side when the ignition is switched on and when I use a fly-lead grounded to the engine block to power up the LT side there are minor sparks on connect/disconnect on the LT ground -Ve terminal but no big fat HT spark off the king-lead held close to the block.
Changed the coil out for a brand new one. Same result, no spark on the HT side. This is a high-power 0.8 ohm coil so should be able to jump a 35 thou' plug gap, but nope not a flicker to be seen.
If I have taken the dizzy completely out of the equation why am I getting no Cracking HT spark when I drop the power on the LT side?

Started raining and too cold to continue so packed up for the day. Fed up with this nonsense.

Regards,
Baffled of Benfleet.
 
Did the new electronic dizzycome with the correct rotor arm?
Correct electronic coil?

On series electronic dizzy had to run a diffent arm to aid the power spark.
Can you set this on number 1,crank & slowly move the dizzy to make it run. You may need a jump motor.
Also if this is an SU unscrew plunger so the slider rises easier.
 
Did the new electronic dizzycome with the correct rotor arm?
Correct electronic coil?

On series electronic dizzy had to run a diffent arm to aid the power spark.
Can you set this on number 1,crank & slowly move the dizzy to make it run. You may need a jump motor.
Also if this is an SU unscrew plunger so the slider rises easier.
Hi :)
This came complete with rotor arm. Correct rotor arm? Anybody's guess. :)
The coil is a non-ballast 0.8Ohm high power coil and is meant to go with electronic dizzy's. :)
Reading various Mini Forum posts they suggest static timing is not possible with an electronic point dizzy and just set the BTDC you suspect it needs and crank away, moving the dizzy till you get it to run. Which seems a bit non-precision.
Raining Cats-n-dogs here now so can't do anything anyway. :(
Thanks for the input. :D
 
The dizzy might not be 180 out, but the leads could be ... 😂 😂

Then how could it run at all???? Well maybe when he swopped from the old to the new, but even so he should be getting sparks just at the wrong time. Like Eric Morecambe's piano playing!!

but it could be well out.
I wish he'd get a right sized socket or a big enough ring spanner, so he could set it up and simply wind the crank round until he gets a "spark". I do understand that he is suffering trying to use the marks on the crank, which could be well out as they sometimes (often?) are.
 
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Well, it is still NO-GO. :(
I went back to square 1 and did everything again.
Maybe I am repeating the same mistake here time and time again?
I checked the old dizzy and its lead positions (because once upon a time this car was working).
The layout (looking at the top of the dizzy cap) was :
3____1
__K__
4___2

And so is the replacement.

No amount of rotation of the Dizzy in either direction produces either a change in a VM reading or a spark on the king lead or #1 plug lead (tried both).
So what if the new Dizzy is duff? Why not manually apply/remove 12v across the coil as a basic check I thought?
Tried that, there's +12v incoming on the LT side when the ignition is switched on and when I use a fly-lead grounded to the engine block to power up the LT side there are minor sparks on connect/disconnect on the LT ground -Ve terminal but no big fat HT spark off the king-lead held close to the block.
Changed the coil out for a brand new one. Same result, no spark on the HT side. This is a high-power 0.8 ohm coil so should be able to jump a 35 thou' plug gap, but nope not a flicker to be seen.
If I have taken the dizzy completely out of the equation why am I getting no Cracking HT spark when I drop the power on the LT side?

Started raining and too cold to continue so packed up for the day. Fed up with this nonsense.

Regards,
Baffled of Benfleet.
I am beginning to wonder if someone fitted an electric anti-theft device, like I did, which shorted ignition to earth until a microswitch was switched.
Have you tried earthing the coil direct to the batt or the engine or an earthing point?
I know we talked about whether it earthed via the body of the coil or through the earth connection on the cap end.

Personally I'd go back to the old dizzy simply to put power through it, get someone to crank the engine and look at the points to see when you get a spark there. (Hoping I am remembering correctly and it IS a points dizzy.) Not connecting it to anything else apart from the LT part of the coil.
So checking you get +ve 12 volts at the + ve connector to the coil, and that comes out the other connector, i.e. the - ve which goes to the dizzy.
If so, then check you have got +at the dizzy, i.e. that the connecting wire is not bust. If this is so then you should get (tiny) sparks at the points each time the points open, which you can test by opening them with a screwdriver.
Then check that the coil still has resistance within the range across the central big connector and whatever it uses for negative. If this is OK, then you can measure the resistance of the king lead to see if that is intact as well.
If so, connect the king lead to the coil and flick the points as you were doing, to open them and close them, while holding the king lead connector, dizzy end, near to an earth point on the engine. If this give you a fat spark at the end of the king lead then, so far-so good. If not it may mean that the coil is fubar.

Being optimistic, if you get a spark, then you need to check the rotor arm is OK. and the connections to it. Connect the king lead to the dizzy cap and check continuity again between the terminal inside the cap and the king lead.
So pop the rotor arm and cap on, connect any spark plug lead (having checked it for resistance/continuity) to a point on the cap and hold the other end close to an engine earth point, and spin the engine with ignition on. You should get a spark each time the rotor gets into position next to its terminal in the cap. If not, the spring in the cap under the king lead could be too weak, (I have had this happen) or there may be a crack in the rotor arm's brass strip, which you can check by measuring it for continuity from the contact point where the king lead's connector touches it, to the end of the brass rotor where the spark jump's the gap from. This crack can be invisible. Again I've had this. And it may not be obvious until the rotor arm is supposed to be doing its job. :(

Being "positive" if this all works as it should you can then go back to playing with timing.
Don't forget that once the engine is running (vacuum disconnected) the timing will be much more advanced than the static. And even more with the vacuum connected.

Just realised I haven't mentioned setting the gap at the points. This can be a real barsteward, and for me is the main advantage of having electronic ignition. Even with a dwell meter you have to tweak the gap by just a tiny amount and of course everything, like the spring on the points, is fighting against you. But a thou on the points is a degree on the timing, so it needs to be as right as you can get it. BUT, you can set it off the car, either with feeler gauges, it is SO much easier to do this with the dizzy mounted in a vice, AND you can check the dwell angle by using a meter or a bulb and measuring, through marks made on the rim of the dizzy body and a protractor, or some maths using pi. This way is surprisingly accurate but you won't read about it in books and stuff!

But if the gap isn't right doing all the rest is a bit "pointless".
Best of luck mate!
 

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