Hi,

I acquired a 2003 4.4l (BMW) L322 last year as a runaround while my daily (Audi) was off the road.

I have grown quite attached to the car as, annoyingly, she’s in great nick inside and all the toys work !

There’s a bit of rust in the underside (mostly
Surface) and a wee bit of panel damage in the rear wing but other than that she’s good. -except for the gearbox.

It’s the ZF-5HP24 and changes are silky smooth and predictable, the only issues are that she’s developed a leak from one of the shaft seals and that I think the Torque Convertor is done as I get that characteristic rumble at 50 and 65 (under light load -if I floor it, it all locks up nicely).

What I’m trying to weigh up is whether I should repair it or not.

Obviously there’s little point of going to all the hassle of stripping down to do the torque convertor only to have to rebuild the gearbox a few months later but costs vary from £2K-5K.

Planet gears in Peterborough seem to know what they’re talking about but they’re not very local to me (Glasgow) and fuel would be around £250 there and back plus time, hotel and entertainment for the family.

Locally, I’ve been quoted between £3200 and £5000 for a complete overhaul.

So my question is this:

Given that, even with a rebuilt gearbox and new torque convertor the car is only likely worth a maximum of £2500, logically it would be madness to spend anything like that on getting it fixed properly.

So what are my options ?

Sell it as-is with a potentially dodgy torque Convertor ? (Which is pretty much what happened to me, but I feel I’d have to disclose that to any buyer)

Scrap it ?

Break it for parts ?

Fix just the torque convertor and leaky seal and then sell it ?

Do the whole repair at around £3000

Logically I should just get shot -the car I want to look after and keep is my P38 Autobiography and the £3K could do a lot for her.

But…. It just doesn’t feel ‘right’ somehow to just let her rust away -she’s too good a car for that -and I guess that how they get you !

Any sensible help and advice would be very welcome. I have put a fair amount of love into the car (a 3-owner example) and maybe I’m being too sentimental.

Thanks again

Bob

Its always a difficult question regardless of what car it is.

What's it worth to you as a daily?
How long did/do you plan on keeping it?
Is that price to sell as a "good" car? I.E no gearbox issues.
If you sold it what would you get for the money?
If you spent the money on the P38 (which I whole heartedly agree is worth keeping) would you then have to rely on it as the daily?
Can you do the work yourself? (save a packet there).

I am not a buy own sell, buy own sell. type of guy. I would rather buy what I want and can afford, and invest to keep as good as possible. Regardless of what its actually worth, I know I have a good reliable car.
If its a solid car then I would say its worth the investment, if you want to keep it.

J

marjon said:

Its always a difficult question regardless of what car it is.

What's it worth to you as a daily?
How long did/do you plan on keeping it?
Is that price to sell as a "good" car? I.E no gearbox issues.
If you sold it what would you get for the money?
If you spent the money on the P38 (which I whole heartedly agree is worth keeping) would you then have to rely on it as the daily?
Can you do the work yourself? (save a packet there).

I am not a buy own sell, buy own sell. type of guy. I would rather buy what I want and can afford, and invest to keep as good as possible. Regardless of what its actually worth, I know I have a good reliable car.
If its a solid car then I would say its worth the investment, if you want to keep it.

J

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Thanks,

That’s all very sensible.

I don’t need it as a daily, my aging Audi does that for me and at 18mpg the L322 is expensive to run.

I need to factor in that it’s costing me around another £100 per month in road tax and insurance too.

I suspect that once the bonnet catch is fixed, she’s likely worth about £500-1000 as she stands, more likely £2500 (after spending £2500 to fix) so logically it s a no-brainier - I’d lose around £500-£1000 on the deal.

But I’d feel a bit shady selling a car with a £3000 issue to an unsuspecting buyer and I suspect it’s a tough sell selling one with a flagged issue.

I’d much rather save the cash and pop it into the P38 which I can work on myself and for which I have all the parts I currently need.

I wonder if there’s a ‘middle’ ground of replacing just the torque convertor and shaft seal -or whether this is being disingenuous to ‘mask’ / cure the problem in the short term
While possibly saving up issues for the future if there is any consequential gearbox wear / damage. -I could likely get this done for around £1000-£1400 and then at least break even -or is this just daft and/or shady ?

-If I did that. I’d probably run her through the winter and sell next spring with a new MOT.

Ugh… I just don’t know. -I’ve seen someone buy a second hand gearbox and rebuild it on the bench for around £500 all-in which I perhaps *could* do as long as it isn’t horrifically complex. I’d still need to get someone to fit it for me as I don’t have the necessary ramp / equipment / skill to replace it on the vehicle. -actually, maybe that isn’t as crazy as it sounds. -you’ve always got the old box to resell and, you could always rebuild it too to add value….

Sorry. Will stop babbling now.

Thanks again !

Bob

awkwardbob said:

Ugh… I just don’t know. -I’ve seen someone buy a second hand gearbox and rebuild it on the bench for around £500 all-in which I perhaps *could* do as long as it isn’t horrifically complex. I’d still need to get someone to fit it for me as I don’t have the necessary ramp / equipment / skill to replace it on the vehicle. -actually, maybe that isn’t as crazy as it sounds.

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I have no idea how hard they are but if you are methodical when taking apart and can get hold of some manual (pretty sure thats possible) then I would think its doable, cost dont know.
You would still need a TC.

My gut is telling me with your "man math" you dont need it. But its worth a fair bit in bits if you have the space and ability to deal with it.

J

I would do the torque convertor and oil seal, the box sounds as if it's good from your description but I guess you can never be sure.

I think that’s the ‘middle way’

Either sell it cheap and buy a good vehicle
Fix it and have a good vehicle
Both options should cost about the same
If you're keeping it then better the devil you know

What sort of mileage has the car done? I had a 52 reg L322 from new and it must have been a Friday Afternoon cr, it was always going wrong. I had the gearbox rebuilt at least twice. The first time I cn't remember what happened to it at about 140,000 miles which I'm told is good for the ZF box, they usually fail at 90,000 miles. After the rebuild it failed again, this time in the middle of winter in Belgium, 3 days after the year warranty ran out. I got it trailered back to the UK and the gearbox repair man told me he'd honour the warranty as he wanted to find out what had failed.

He was unable to work out what happened as the torque converter was so badly damaged. Ha, just remembered, the 2nd time it was rebuilt was soon after the first rebuild (obviously), something happened and he hadn't rebuilt the valve block. He fitted a new valve block, then as said the torque converter melted.

It's always a dilemma when you've spent a lot on a car only to find it won't fetch market value. I'd agree with the others that if you're going to rebuild do he job properly, it'll save you doing it twice. I ended up getting rod of my 52 reg with about 270,000 miles on the clock. The 10 reg Vogue I p/x'd a few weeks ago is going back as it's showing gearbox failures, the dealer agreed to take it back. But with over 100 electrical faults showing, it was a bad car anyway. If you really like your car and have spent a bit on it, better the devil you know, fix it and look after it. whatever else you get with the words Land Rover on it will go wrong and cost a Lot Of Money to fix.

I've seen this a few times. Keeping more than one vehicle.
This doesn't apply to you @awkwardbob , a guy I know has a multitude of cars. All kinds of different vehicles, a nice collection but they all need something doing to them and nothing can be used as he wants. My thought would be as said previously, get rid of what you really don't need and put the money into one good vehicle
If I was to add up all the money I've spent on my bus who paint work ain't so great but mechanically is sound I'd cry or I could have had some more warwick bass guitars

Why not just enjoy it til it dies? If it’s 3K to fix but 2.5K for a whole one use it and enjoy it. When the day comes it’s too much trouble it can go then

That's the attitude I'm having to take these days! As much as I hate wasting things, one has to be practical about it. I've wasted loads of money over the years restoring old buses with a view to earning something when I retired (7 years ago), but still having to rebuild engines for them at vast expense.

RangeRoller dt said:

Why not just enjoy it til it dies? If it’s 3K to fix but 2.5K for a whole one use it and enjoy it. When the day comes it’s too much trouble it can go then

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Until it dumps its guts and your stranded 200 miles from home at 2am .

J

marjon said:

Until it dumps its guts and your stranded 200 miles from home at 2am .

J

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AA recovery is essential.

Datatek said:

AA recovery is essential.

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I would rather look after the car than do that journey of shame .

Don’t get me wrong we have it, only ever used it 1 time in the UK early in our RR ownership
J

Is it worth keeping then? It seems like a lot of expense to use once again. But then so are my vintage buses!

roythebus said:

Is it worth keeping then? It seems like a lot of expense to use once again. But then so are my vintage buses!

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As said earlier, if you want to keep it don’t count the pennies. Only the OP can decide cost v value.

If you need to know how much to ship a tophat lined engine from the UK I can tell you it was worth it.

J