having trouble with the gear selecter on my disco 200 tdi, the gear change feels sloppy, and when changing down to second gear, i get a bad crunch, i'm hoping it's just the selecter thats worn, but the haynes manual doesn't give any information on how to check it, any advice welcome and where is the best place to order spare parts, i also need a heater blower motor unit
discomania
Well-Known Member
It could be a few things, it could be that your clutch release mechanism is not working properly, thus you are getting drag on the gearbox even when the clutch is fully depressed.
Ours cruches as well in 2nd, however only when changing gear at the wrong time, you can drive without a clutch, by changing gear at the right time, and letting engine speed drop to match road speed before pushing it into the next gear or increasing engine speed for dropping gears (did this the other night when my release fork packed in).
So in theory a good gear change does not really need the clutch. You may be aware that some gearchanges just slip in no problem and others are slightly hesitant, thats the syncros working.
2nd usually gets the most use, and as a result fails first, it can be in a state of failing for some time, and the dodgey clutch will not help it, however other gears will cope with good syncros, although feel a bit iffy.
So, you have a worn syncro on second most likly in which case, live with it by changing gear carefully its not worth dropping the box yet (its not hard you can live with it perfectly happily with it).
It could be the hydraulic cylinders is leaking, the fluid is low, or there is air in the system, therefore not pushing the release fork enough to release the clutch.
I would start (and did yesterday) by checking the hydraulic system, if need be bleed it and top up with fluid, look for any leaks around the master and slave.
If your lucky, that will sort it for the sake of 30mins and some fluid.
If all is well with the hyraulics your clutch release mechanism is failing (the piviot point wears through or the fork collapses, or the baring is goosed) your going to need to take the gearbox off the engine to change the release fork anyway and it may be worth getting the gearbox rebuilt, while its off, and check your clutch plate too, for £20 it would be worth putting a new one in to save having to do it again 20,000miles down the road!
Ours cruches as well in 2nd, however only when changing gear at the wrong time, you can drive without a clutch, by changing gear at the right time, and letting engine speed drop to match road speed before pushing it into the next gear or increasing engine speed for dropping gears (did this the other night when my release fork packed in).
So in theory a good gear change does not really need the clutch. You may be aware that some gearchanges just slip in no problem and others are slightly hesitant, thats the syncros working.
2nd usually gets the most use, and as a result fails first, it can be in a state of failing for some time, and the dodgey clutch will not help it, however other gears will cope with good syncros, although feel a bit iffy.
So, you have a worn syncro on second most likly in which case, live with it by changing gear carefully its not worth dropping the box yet (its not hard you can live with it perfectly happily with it).
It could be the hydraulic cylinders is leaking, the fluid is low, or there is air in the system, therefore not pushing the release fork enough to release the clutch.
I would start (and did yesterday) by checking the hydraulic system, if need be bleed it and top up with fluid, look for any leaks around the master and slave.
If your lucky, that will sort it for the sake of 30mins and some fluid.
If all is well with the hyraulics your clutch release mechanism is failing (the piviot point wears through or the fork collapses, or the baring is goosed) your going to need to take the gearbox off the engine to change the release fork anyway and it may be worth getting the gearbox rebuilt, while its off, and check your clutch plate too, for £20 it would be worth putting a new one in to save having to do it again 20,000miles down the road!
walter2004
New Member
If it was the clutch not clearing it would baulk in 2nd gear not crunch. 200 dti were bad for 2nd gear. There is a modified baulk ring. You could try and gently get it ino 2nd without clutch and without the vehicle moving. Just keep the gearstick pressing against 2nd gear for about 30 sec. This should help but will not last for long. I would try and put up with it because if you strip the gearbox you will find a lot more than 2nd gear wrong.
discomania
Well-Known Member
It will be the baulk(syncro) ring that is crunching...
Walter2004 what you are suggesting is that he goes into gear without the clutch, and holding it there for 20/30seconds, in this time he is going to be using the syncro rings until it works, it is these that are gubbed, so he's not going to be doing them any favours. He would be better just learning when he can change gear without the clutch.
Off the top of my head, if you are going along in 1st, and reach 2000rpm, let the engine speed fall back to 1000 and pull it into 2nd with the clutch, this will mean that the syncro should be doing little if any work, you will get good at this, and you will find the clutch is not even needed.
Walter2004 what you are suggesting is that he goes into gear without the clutch, and holding it there for 20/30seconds, in this time he is going to be using the syncro rings until it works, it is these that are gubbed, so he's not going to be doing them any favours. He would be better just learning when he can change gear without the clutch.
Off the top of my head, if you are going along in 1st, and reach 2000rpm, let the engine speed fall back to 1000 and pull it into 2nd with the clutch, this will mean that the syncro should be doing little if any work, you will get good at this, and you will find the clutch is not even needed.
donboon
New Member
Reminds me of the old Ford Pop sit-up-and-beg with slits in the headlamps and double de-clutching days. What are Ulot like. Don't mess with it, take it out, stick it in the "DISHWASHER", slap some grease and sawdust into it, cook it on 450 and serve it up with WINS90. or get an exchange.
Do you really want a 48tonner up your rear whilst piddling about for 30secs on a roundabout.
Do you really want a 48tonner up your rear whilst piddling about for 30secs on a roundabout.
discomania
Well-Known Member
Well he won't need to, its just the case of changing at the right moment, if he does so he's not using the syncros.
Yes it will eventually need fixed but in the mean time he can drive it perfectly well if he changes at the right moment.
As for waiting 20/30seconds for it to slip in, that's even worse, its then using the syncro excessively and going to cause it to completely stop working earlier
Yes it will eventually need fixed but in the mean time he can drive it perfectly well if he changes at the right moment.
As for waiting 20/30seconds for it to slip in, that's even worse, its then using the syncro excessively and going to cause it to completely stop working earlier
Spanishlander
New Member
loads of good cheap spares on e-bay......
walter2004
New Member
I am not going to keep this going but when this first became a problem with the 200 dti( which was sometimes at the pdi) this was the method suggested by land rover. I meant to say with the vehicle not moving but engine running gently put the gearstick towards 2nd. pushing slightly then releasing every second or so for about 30 sec. This is not a cure but can buy you time. I have had the misfortune of overhauling at least 50 lt77 gearboxes and just as many 380 boxes so I have had a little experience of them.
Wanagetmuddy
New Member
You mwont need a new gear box mine has been doing it for the past 16 months just got to be careful with the gear change !!!!
I have been told that the Lt whateva the number for the 200 disco are prone for the syncro mesh breaking or failing. I think its supposed to be a two part or three cant remember sycro mesh that it has in, so therefore its more likely to fail. But there is a single sycro mesh that gets fitted which is what I will be looking in doin instead of a new gearbox.
To be fair its cheaper and better for you to do this as a second hand gearbox will be in exactly the same boat once worn!!!!
I have also been told that rt are a better gearbox but again it has its disadvantages !!!
I have been told that the Lt whateva the number for the 200 disco are prone for the syncro mesh breaking or failing. I think its supposed to be a two part or three cant remember sycro mesh that it has in, so therefore its more likely to fail. But there is a single sycro mesh that gets fitted which is what I will be looking in doin instead of a new gearbox.
To be fair its cheaper and better for you to do this as a second hand gearbox will be in exactly the same boat once worn!!!!
I have also been told that rt are a better gearbox but again it has its disadvantages !!!
discomania
Well-Known Member
Same problem likely, if it does it again, gently accelerate and then lift your foot off the accelerator to remove the drive which will release the pressure holding it into gear.
Synchromesh rings are taper-faced friction-ring-clutches, barely 3 to 4 inches in diameter. What they do should be to match the rotational speed of the gear involved, with the speed of the laygear, when the cluch is down. This is quite hard work, and synchro rings are sacrificial parts - we KNOW from new they WILL wear out.
Those little rings have to drag down or up the speed of a lot of spinning metal, including the entire clutch driven plate, the first motion shaft (input shaft) the whole lay-gear, ALL the speed gears (these are "constant mesh gearboxes) as well as the one synchromesh hub of the gear you are looking for.
If the engine is running, clutch UP, car stationary, gears in neutral, you need to think what is happening in there.
First, the gearbox INPUT shaft (first motion shaft) is spinning at engine speed. This shaft is in permanent mesh with the front end of ther LAYSHAFT and Laygears (second motion shaft). At this stage there is a gap in the drive-train. The gearbox OUTPUT shaft (third motion shaft) is connected to the propshafts through the transfer box. This shaft turns with the wheels in proportion to road speed. So, half the bits are being driven by the engine and all the other bits are being held motionless by the wheels and props.
If at this stage you hold the gearlever hard against any gear, this will force the NOT spinning synchromesh ring against the spinning speed gear taper faces jamming them into each other with considerable force, and it will take about 10 to 20 seconds for the synchro ring to wipe out the thin oil, then it will run dry - metal to metal, and may go RED HOT. You can start a small oil fire inside the gearbox even, but it doesn't last long as the air supply soon burns out.
Once a synchro ring has gone red hot and cools, it has lost it's original heat treatment, and you can expect it to collapse / wear out / split very soon, if not on the first occasion you try this idea.
Remember, synchromesh is a FRICTION device. Friction devices wear, and get hot. Synchromesh is designed NEVER to be used unless the CLUTCH is fully disengaged. Synchromesh WILL wear out in time, but in LandRovers something else usually breaks first so some of us won't notice.
CharlesY
Those little rings have to drag down or up the speed of a lot of spinning metal, including the entire clutch driven plate, the first motion shaft (input shaft) the whole lay-gear, ALL the speed gears (these are "constant mesh gearboxes) as well as the one synchromesh hub of the gear you are looking for.
If the engine is running, clutch UP, car stationary, gears in neutral, you need to think what is happening in there.
First, the gearbox INPUT shaft (first motion shaft) is spinning at engine speed. This shaft is in permanent mesh with the front end of ther LAYSHAFT and Laygears (second motion shaft). At this stage there is a gap in the drive-train. The gearbox OUTPUT shaft (third motion shaft) is connected to the propshafts through the transfer box. This shaft turns with the wheels in proportion to road speed. So, half the bits are being driven by the engine and all the other bits are being held motionless by the wheels and props.
If at this stage you hold the gearlever hard against any gear, this will force the NOT spinning synchromesh ring against the spinning speed gear taper faces jamming them into each other with considerable force, and it will take about 10 to 20 seconds for the synchro ring to wipe out the thin oil, then it will run dry - metal to metal, and may go RED HOT. You can start a small oil fire inside the gearbox even, but it doesn't last long as the air supply soon burns out.
Once a synchro ring has gone red hot and cools, it has lost it's original heat treatment, and you can expect it to collapse / wear out / split very soon, if not on the first occasion you try this idea.
Remember, synchromesh is a FRICTION device. Friction devices wear, and get hot. Synchromesh is designed NEVER to be used unless the CLUTCH is fully disengaged. Synchromesh WILL wear out in time, but in LandRovers something else usually breaks first so some of us won't notice.
CharlesY
