Recently experienced extreme lack of power and what feels like fuel starvation when trying to drive my 1996 P38 2.5DT up a ramp to get it washed for MOT

Put it down to a problem i've been having for some time where if the fuel level is below about 1/3 it gets hard to start after a day or two (suspect fuel pickup/pump in tank).

As the fuel level was low-ish I filled it up with diesel and thought it would be ok after that.

Hooked on my boat trailer and went to the local marina to retrieve my boat for servicing, after getting the boat on the trailer I found that again I had no power to pull up the steep slipway. Took boat off trailer and was barely able to get the trailer and rangerover back to the top!

So, before removing the tank (especially as it is now filled to the neck with Diesel!) I decided to replace the fuel filter and cover off the simple things first.

On removal of the fuel filter canister in the engine bay I noticed there was no gasket in the centre of the filter around the threads. (It does have the big one around the outside though) The new filter had a rubber gasket in the centre, so I thought ok I've perhaps found the problem.

That was yesterday, today I went out to start it and I had to turn it over for 20-30 seconds before it would fire (pretty much like the way it does when the fuel level is low in the tank)

Now i'm wondering should I have removed the rubber gasket before fitting the filter - what do you guys think?

To add insult to injury the EAS packed up on the way home from the marina! but that's for another thread.

Cheers for now

Pete

The middle o ring isn't require on the fuel filter, you only need the outside one.

Most of the fuel filters only come with the outside o ring, there was a thread on this a while back, and seems to vary between brands and suppliers. I've had with and without the centre o ring, and doesn't make any difference.

Regarding the cranking time, could just be that the weather is warm enough that the ecu isn't firing the glow plugs, and as a result you have "normal" hot starting issues. I am finding mine cranks for ages in this weather before it fires, but starts on the first turn in winter.

The in-tank pump will certainly affect your starting but once going it shouldn't reduce your power badly. To check it you can measure the flow by disconnecting the clear fuel pipe under the bonnet and crank a cold engine. WAMMERS has posted precise figures sometime ago.
Have you checked your pipe from under the inlet manifold to MAP sensor? If this has failed then you'll have power issues.
Are your turbo pipes all good and tightly connected?
Injector leak-off pipes all good?

dogsbody said:

The in-tank pump will certainly affect your starting but once going it shouldn't reduce your power badly. To check it you can measure the flow by disconnecting the clear fuel pipe under the bonnet and crank a cold engine. WAMMERS has posted precise figures sometime ago.
Have you checked your pipe from under the inlet manifold to MAP sensor? If this has failed then you'll have power issues.
Are your turbo pipes all good and tightly connected?
Injector leak-off pipes all good?

Click to expand...

Cranking won't run the pump on a pre 1999 engine. Pump will only run if glow plugs are lit or engine is running on those models or if you feed power to terminal 5 on relay 12. Feed terminal 5 for 10 seconds and you should get a minimum of 180 ml in that time. Terminal 5 is the one contrary in orientation to the other three.

Something I overlooked adding,

The loss of power on the ramp at the MOT wash was only noticeable while driving up. There was no loss of power when I had to reverse up to get the rear washed.

Strange!

Could that be linked to the revs used? The turbo doesn't kick in till maybe 1700 revs, I think?

Thanks everyone for the answers.

Since my last post it now starts and idles fine, think I had perhaps a bit of air in the system after changing the filter.

The stalling on a steep incline at low revs (in forward gear only) still exists though.

dogsbody said:

The in-tank pump will certainly affect your starting but once going it shouldn't reduce your power badly. To check it you can measure the flow by disconnecting the clear fuel pipe under the bonnet and crank a cold engine. WAMMERS has posted precise figures sometime ago.

Click to expand...

I don't seem to have a clear pipe - where does it come from and go to?
Will try to find the post by wammers

dogsbody said:

Have you checked your pipe from under the inlet manifold to MAP sensor? If this has failed then you'll have power issues.

Click to expand...

I have no idea where the MAP sensor is, or what it looks like. Will check RAVE and see if it gives me any clues on this.

dogsbody said:

Are your turbo pipes all good and tightly connected?
Injector leak-off pipes all good?

Click to expand...

Havent checked turbo pipes, but assume its not a turbo issue due to it stalling before the engine revs are high enough for the turbo to kick in.

Leak off pipes again im not sure what you are talking about - will do some reading of RAVE and then go check.

bbjunkie said:

Thanks everyone for the answers.

Since my last post it now starts and idles fine, think I had perhaps a bit of air in the system after changing the filter.

The stalling on a steep incline at low revs (in forward gear only) still exists though.

In tank pump.

I don't seem to have a clear pipe - where does it come from and go to?
Will try to find the post by wammers

Goes from the fuel filter to the fuel injection pump

I have no idea where the MAP sensor is, or what it looks like. Will check RAVE and see if it gives me any clues on this.

It's mounted on the front face of the fuel filter housing with a pipe going to the manifold.


Havent checked turbo pipes, but assume its not a turbo issue due to it stalling before the engine revs are high enough for the turbo to kick in.

Leak off pipes again im not sure what you are talking about - will do some reading of RAVE and then go check.

Click to expand...

Leak off pipes link the injectors and return the excess fuel to the FIP, they perish and leak, look and see if you have fuel in the injector recesses.

Leak off pipes are fine, pipe from manifold to filter housing (map sensor) is fine, while I was out - I found a sensor screwed into the inlet manifold near the front. I screwed it out and it is very messy - covered in black engine oil. IAT sensor I believe. Can the MAP sensor be tested, or do I just swap it for a new one?

Found the clear pipe - it is so dirty it was black (road dirt, not oil)

Is it worth my while measuring fuel delivery under the bonnet, will it show up the fault that only seems to be showing itself on a steep incline? If I measure and I get the correct amount, will that prove it's definitley not the pump?

Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and pull the tank.

ps datatek - thanks for the reply to PM - will be in touch in the next day or two.

Pete

Decided to pull the tank and replace the pump, as it obviously needs done even if it isnt the source of the stalling issue, it is the source of the hard starting when low fuel level which probably sooner or later will burn out the starter motor.

Any recommendations on a competitive supplier of the in tank pump? (scared of eBay in case I end up with a Chinese copy part)

Cheers
Pete

bbjunkie said:

Decided to pull the tank and replace the pump, as it obviously needs done even if it isnt the source of the stalling issue, it is the source of the hard starting when low fuel level which probably sooner or later will burn out the starter motor.

Any recommendations on a competitive supplier of the in tank pump? (scared of eBay in case I end up with a Chinese copy part)

Cheers
Pete

Click to expand...

I got mine from this lot oem Landrover boxed ask for original don't forget the olive set look

Famous Four - New Parts for Range Rover P38A (Second Generation) 1995-2002 Models - Fuel & Air Systems

Thanks for the recommendation.

What size are the jubilee clips that need replaced when removing the tank? Just like to have them to hand when I need them!

Hopefully will get this sorted midweek.

Cheers
Pete