PurityVendetta

PurityVendetta

Member
After messing around for a while trying to find the cause of a rumbling and vibration through the drive train of our 2000 D2 TD5 I traced it to a worn out UJ in the double Cardon Joint. I stripped the damaged UJs out and cleaned everything up and waited for the repair kit. The kit arrived but when I came to fit it I found that the original UJ spiders and bearings are just over a millimetre narrower than the ones supplied with the kit which are 75mm wide. I went through the normal assembly process but when I came to press the bearings up they're too wide to get the second circlip in.
Has anyone come across this most annoying problem before I wonder. Did Land Rover use propshafts with narrower yokes at some point. I have to admit to being pretty ****ed off as our Disco is our daily transport and I'm having to run around on my Norton cafe racer, not the most practical machine for going to visit customers on.
As usual, any help or advice gratefully received and much appreciated.
And I'm still looking for a good Oxford Blue (602) rear offside quarter panel with the glass if anyone is breaking a 1999 - 2004 D2
 
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If you replace the whole fing youve then got one to play wiv!!!
Then you can tell us!!!!!!


Er I have too, got one to play wiv, but I ain't started yet!;););)
 
Well, the supplier has accepted a return but this doesn't help me get the car back on the road or explain why mine seems to be different than the standard 75mm span joints. Plus I have to collect a propshaft on a motorbike. I'm glad it's not the rear prop ☹️
 
PurityVendetta said:
After messing around for a while trying to find the cause of a rumbling and vibration through the drive train of our 2000 D2 TD5 I traced it to a worn out UJ in the double Cardon Joint. I stripped the damaged UJs out and cleaned everything up and waited for the repair kit. The kit arrived but when I came to fit it I found that the original UJ spiders and bearings are just over a millimetre narrower than the ones supplied with the kit which are 75mm wide. I went through the normal assembly process but when I came to press the bearings up they're too wide to get the second circlip in.
Has anyone come across this most annoying problem before I wonder. Did Land Rover use propshafts with narrower yokes at some point. I have to admit to being pretty ****ed off as our Disco is our daily transport and I'm having to run around on my Norton cafe racer, not the most practical machine for going to visit customers on.
As usual, any help or advice gratefully received and much appreciated.
And I'm still looking for a good Oxford Blue (602) rear offside quarter panel with the glass if anyone is breaking a 1999 - 2004 D2
Click to expand...
A truly dreadful bit of design, even by Landrovers low standards.
Double UJ with no grease nipples, and if it is the same as the V8s, right beside a massive hot exhaust!

I would also go with replacement of the whole shaft, and try and get an aftermarket one with grease nipples thoughout, then the problem won't happen again.
 
A reliable source tells me that the cheap (£165) 'new' propshafts, mostly recons from China are generally very unreliable lasting less than 12 months and the alternative European version is £380 + vat).
While I appreciate that not everyone has access to a their own engineering workshop it's not exactly rocket science to repair a worn out UJ. I hate the attitude that you just throw away a perfectly good propshaft for the want of a bit of elbow grease. Working on garages in my teens I must have replaced dozens of UJs and CV joints and I just don't get people who will pay three times the price just to avoid getting their hands dirty. And there's no excuse for there not being a repair kit available. I probably wouldn't be able to fit one for less than £100 plus the £50 - £60 for a decant GKN, German made kit but at least it would last and have grease nipples.
It's not difficult to see how the UK's ended up in the state it is just chucking things in the bin and buying a new one.
 
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It certainly isnt about getting you hands dirty, its usually the poor quality of the replacement parts, and them not fitting correctly that pee's most off, and that causing them to fit a whole replacement instead.. You can thank a certain supplier for bringing down the quality of parts for the LR community.
 
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tilly2 said:
It certainly isnt about getting you hands dirty, its usually the poor quality of the replacement parts, and them not fitting correctly that pee's most off, and that causing them to fit a whole replacement instead.. You can thank a certain supplier for bringing down the quality of parts for the LR community.
Click to expand...
Seems to be more than one supplier bringing down the quality and reliability of Land Rover parts. The new UJs I tried to fit were GKN branded and made in Germany to a high standard. The problem arises that it appears to me that the parts supplied are different to the original component. This only becomes clear when you attempt to fit them. I do not throw away anything now that I can fit new bushes or bearings into, I just avoid any of the land rovers parts suppliers as far as I can.
 
In the past doing this job I have found that it is the amount of rust in the places where the circlips are supposed to fit that makes it seem as of the new ones are the wrong size. You could try putting a micrometer or a caliper across the thickness of the new and the old ones to see, but then of course the new ones could have rusted away a bit and they might seem thinner as a result!
Just give the whole thing a really thorough clean and scrape.
Best of luck!
 
PurityVendetta said:
Seems to be more than one supplier bringing down the quality and reliability of Land Rover parts. The new UJs I tried to fit were GKN branded and made in Germany to a high standard. The problem arises that it appears to me that the parts supplied are different to the original component. This only becomes clear when you attempt to fit them. I do not throw away anything now that I can fit new bushes or bearings into, I just avoid any of the land rovers parts suppliers as far as I can.
Click to expand...
There have been a number of different part numbers for the front props, but they all now seem to drill down to the one fitted to the automatic, sometimes know as "heavy duty". We had a brief discussion https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/transfer-box-front-output-bearing.379134/ . As I was about to go to France for a couple of months, I ordered a new (rebuilt) prop from Grove Engineering which arrived a couple of days before we went and all seems fine, noise/vibration gone.

Now, I know you don't want any more "I just replaced mine" comments, so bear with me. I kept the old prop and have just been down the garage/shed and measured across the cups in the prop and it measures 75mm. There is no gap to the circlips. So the repair kit would probably have been fine for my old prop. My D2 is a 2004 TD5 Auto.

This doesn't immediately solve your problem but could the earlier manual props have a slightly different UJ? Can you measure yours from circlip to circlip? As LR seemed to standardise on the auto prop, maybe the repair kits have too?

Hope this helps, just a little!
 
PopPops said:
There have been a number of different part numbers for the front props, but they all now seem to drill down to the one fitted to the automatic, sometimes know as "heavy duty". We had a brief discussion https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/transfer-box-front-output-bearing.379134/ . As I was about to go to France for a couple of months, I ordered a new (rebuilt) prop from Grove Engineering which arrived a couple of days before we went and all seems fine, noise/vibration gone.

Now, I know you don't want any more "I just replaced mine" comments, so bear with me. I kept the old prop and have just been down the garage/shed and measured across the cups in the prop and it measures 75mm. There is no gap to the circlips. So the repair kit would probably have been fine for my old prop. My D2 is a 2004 TD5 Auto.

This doesn't immediately solve your problem but could the earlier manual props have a slightly different UJ? Can you measure yours from circlip to circlip? As LR seemed to standardise on the auto prop, maybe the repair kits have too?

Hope this helps, just a little!
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for your reply. I think I might have figured out what the issue is. As I own a small engineering company I've taken the time to carefully measure and examine the propshaft and UJs. It appears that there might be two different designed of UJs. One type, the one that doesn't fit my old prop shaft has a smaller bearing journal, a smaller bearing cup and a rubber boot type seal. The other, that would fit has a pressed steel shield with a rubber insert as the seal. The bearing journal and bearing cup are much bigger but the whole setup is slightly narrower. These UJs also incorporate small, what appear to be teflon end caps between the end of the bearing journal and the blind end of the bearing cap. While my investigation is by no means conclusive I'm going to call a couple of suppliers and ask if it would be possible to measure across the UJ spider's span with the bearings fitted. I will post the results if and when I've bottomed out the issue.
The car's back on the road and driving fine. I found yet another shyster selling a used prop shaft and in the tradition of these people it was US with a failed bearing. Luckily it was cheap at £40 but the chimp selling it had rammed the splined end back in with the wrong alignment as they only fit in one position.
I used a good UJ and bearing from my old shaft and popped the thing back together and it works.
To be honest, much as I love my Land Rover things like this really depress me given the amount of time and effort it takes to sort out a simple repair. It just shouldn't be like this. And I'm virtually at the end of my patience trying to find an Oxford Blue offside rear quarter panel given the number of time wasters claiming to be breaking cars
 
PopPops said:
There have been a number of different part numbers for the front props, but they all now seem to drill down to the one fitted to the automatic, sometimes know as "heavy duty". We had a brief discussion https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/transfer-box-front-output-bearing.379134/ . As I was about to go to France for a couple of months, I ordered a new (rebuilt) prop from Grove Engineering which arrived a couple of days before we went and all seems fine, noise/vibration gone.

Now, I know you don't want any more "I just replaced mine" comments, so bear with me. I kept the old prop and have just been down the garage/shed and measured across the cups in the prop and it measures 75mm. There is no gap to the circlips. So the repair kit would probably have been fine for my old prop. My D2 is a 2004 TD5 Auto.

This doesn't immediately solve your problem but could the earlier manual props have a slightly different UJ? Can you measure yours from circlip to circlip? As LR seemed to standardise on the auto prop, maybe the repair kits have too?

Hope this helps, just a little!
Click to expand...
Hi hope your doing well, looking at the LR parts list,see link, there seems to be six different p/no's for the fr. props but as far as I can tell none superceed to one number (from the various c/no's or eng/g.box types listed) but it would be better if there was a one prop fits all;).
As @PurityVendetta has discovered the kits (GKN or otherwise) might not fit 'your' prop (unless there's only a couple of different uj/bearing sizes & the props differ in other ways? So it would be great if we can get a definitive answer for the overhaul kits for any given prop. Although I can't detect any play in mine I would love to change the uj's for peace of mind but now I'm weary of just buying a repair kit until I know more, all the best.
Genuine Propshaft Front For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts
 
Andy Warren said:
Hi hope your doing well, looking at the LR parts list,see link, there seems to be six different p/no's for the fr. props but as far as I can tell none superceed to one number (from the various c/no's or eng/g.box types listed) but it would be better if there was a one prop fits all;).
As @PurityVendetta has discovered the kits (GKN or otherwise) might not fit 'your' prop (unless there's only a couple of different uj/bearing sizes & the props differ in other ways? So it would be great if we can get a definitive answer for the overhaul kits for any given prop. Although I can't detect any play in mine I would love to change the uj's for peace of mind but now I'm weary of just buying a repair kit until I know more, all the best.
Genuine Propshaft Front For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts
Click to expand...
As I hate dead end threads where people can't be bothered to share solutions I will post my findings once I have spoken to some suppliers. One interesting fact is that if you carefully clean up the bearing caps and use a micrometer across the span of the UJ spider, the rubber boot type measure 75mm. The type with the pressed steel shield type seals measure 73.something mm. I'm going to get underneath the car tomorrow and measure the span precisely as I used some digital verniers that are always a bit sketchy for exact measurements. I'll also try to find any part numbers stamped into the prop. There are numerous casting numbers which are raised but I noticed an embossed number that might mean more to others as I have no parts manual.
All this would be fine if the car was an off roading hobby vehicle but she's our everyday driver, work vehicle and everything else. We need to keep her on the road.
 
Andy Warren said:
Hi hope your doing well, looking at the LR parts list,see link, there seems to be six different p/no's for the fr. props but as far as I can tell none superceed to one number (from the various c/no's or eng/g.box types listed) but it would be better if there was a one prop fits all;).
As @PurityVendetta has discovered the kits (GKN or otherwise) might not fit 'your' prop (unless there's only a couple of different uj/bearing sizes & the props differ in other ways? So it would be great if we can get a definitive answer for the overhaul kits for any given prop. Although I can't detect any play in mine I would love to change the uj's for peace of mind but now I'm weary of just buying a repair kit until I know more, all the best.
Genuine Propshaft Front For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts
Click to expand...
Hi, all is well thanks!

When I was looking to replace the prop, I didn't have time and probably not the facilities to repair it, I went round in circles trying to confirm the part number - there are so many discussions on the internet but nothing definitive. I was going to get a prop from one of the well know suppliers but then saw some reports of early failures, so that put me off. I did see the link you posted and although they don't specifically say one supersedes the other, all but one for the TD5 Auto (and the north American one) are listed as no longer available. I contacted Grove Engineering (a recommend, I have no connection with the company) asking his opinion and this was the reply "The earlier auto props have bearings in the sliding joint whereas the manuals have a coated spline. all the part numbers supersede down to the same propshaft now. so one will fit all." This sort of confirmed the "no longer available" for all but one in the LR listing. I ordered the Grove rebuilt prop, it fitted no problem and, so far, has been fine. I've kept the old prop and may consider rebuilding it in the future. It's a nightmare that manufacturers keep fiddling with parts for no apparent good reason, and all this could probably have been avoided if they had fitted grease nipples in the first place...

PS, my old prop measures 75mm across the caps, so I guess the standard repair kit would fit.
 
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