Freddie17 · Dec 3, 2023

… ok, so it was 3.5 degrees when I left, and I switched on 2 heated seats - the climate control is always on front and rear. At present, it is set to 22, so it was going full tilt at the start. From below you can see that, if I turned it ALL off at that point, I could squeeze another 13 miles on range. That said, after 15 minutes and the cabin getting warmer, that had dropped to only 8 miles increase if all turned off. That’s less than 5% of the total range, for a nice toastie car at near freezing temperatures outside.

My car has a heat pump, so I guess that will be much more efficient in its running (I’ve no idea how much by), but even with your 4kw heater, it/you will only be using that to get the cabin up to a warmer temp, then consumption should drop off dramatically.

Heated seats are also of great benefit in the electric world, with less power used to get a warmer feeling direct to body

The battery itself also loses a bit of charging performance in the colder weather.

Nodge68 · Dec 3, 2023

Heat pump heating is about a 3 to 1 ratio, so 1kW of electrical energy would make about 3kW of heating energy. This it why they're such an improvement over resistive heating.

Freddie17 · Dec 3, 2023

Nodge68 said:
Heat pump heating is about a 3 to 1 ratio, so 1kW of electrical energy would make about 3kW of heating energy. This it why they're such an improvement over resistive heatin

Is there a cheap(er) generic aftermarket version available for a car yet that could be used in place?

Nodge68 · Dec 3, 2023

Freddie17 said:
Is there a cheap(er) generic aftermarket version available for a car yet that could be used in place?

In theory the AC system could be made to run in reverse, taking cold are from outside, and sending it to the inside. This is how heat pump EVs work, it's just the refrigeration cycle, nothing that new really.

Alibro · Dec 3, 2023

I believe the performance of the heat pump is very much dependent on the design as some companies struggle to get better range than with standard PTC heater. I think Audi or VW had this problem.
In my case the heated seats are critical as it's around freezing outside.

Sadly I chickened out of extending the range test today as I had taken the car two miles to church this morning and when we went to leave it was a tad iffy about moving. I'm not sure why but it moved a few metres and stopped. Unfortunately I need to wait around 10 seconds before retrying and it took 3 or 4 attempts so the boss wasn't impressed. I plugged it in for a few hours before going for my mum.

Freddie17 · Dec 3, 2023

I would have done exactly the same…
hope it was nothing major - maybe just cold weather gremlins

Alibro · Dec 3, 2023

Freddie17 said:
I would have done exactly the same…
hope it was nothing major - maybe just cold weather gremlins

I hope so too, however Ironic is I think the correct word for what happened this evening or maybe karma for not trusting my leccy car.
This afternoon I used the Freelander to pick mum up from my sister who lives around 10 miles away. Drove there no issues and home again no issues, parked it in the garage and made the decision I would use my old C Class to bring her home this evening.
It is a tad cool tonight and she is 95 after all.

So we got to my sisters house, I went in for a chat and 45 mins later I went out to the car put the key in the ignition, turned it to start and and Zilch, Nada, Nothing.

I was a tad confused for a few minutes then tried all sorts of things to get it to start but unfortunately I had no tools and my sister had nothing that would help so I had to park it there and get her to run me home.

Apparently after a quick search on T'Internet failing ignition locks on Mercs are a common thing that requires the steering column be removed and it is a pretty expensive fix.

Freddie17 · Dec 4, 2023

Alibro said:
I hope so too, however Ironic is I think the correct word for what happened this evening or maybe karma for not trusting my leccy car.
This afternoon I used the Freelander to pick mum up from my sister who lives around 10 miles away. Drove there no issues and home again no issues, parked it in the garage and made the decision I would use my old C Class to bring her home this evening.
It is a tad cool tonight and she is 95 after all.
So we got to my sisters house, I went in for a chat and 45 mins later I went out to the car put the key in the ignition, turned it to start and and Zilch, Nada, Nothing.
I was a tad confused for a few minutes then tried all sorts of things to get it to start but unfortunately I had no tools and my sister had nothing that would help so I had to park it there and get her to run me home.
Apparently after a quick search on T'Internet failing ignition locks on Mercs are a common thing that requires the steering column be removed and it is a pretty expensive fix.

Nooooooo!
…You should get a Freelander - much more reliable and easier technology to work with. I know of a guy designing his own electric version…

Alibro · Dec 4, 2023

Alibro said:
I believe the performance of the heat pump is very much dependent on the design as some companies struggle to get better range than with standard PTC heater. I think Audi or VW had this problem.
In my case the heated seats are critical as it's around freezing outside.

Sadly I chickened out of extending the range test today as I had taken the car two miles to church this morning and when we went to leave it was a tad iffy about moving. I'm not sure why but it moved a few metres and stopped. Unfortunately I need to wait around 10 seconds before retrying and it took 3 or 4 attempts so the boss wasn't impressed. I plugged it in for a few hours before going for my mum.

I think I know why the car was cutting out on Sunday. At least I hope this was the reason.
Some plonker was working at it during the week and forgot to tighten the neg terminal on the battery. :vb-headbang:

Of course I can't be certain but it seems likely. If there was a lot of sparking from the charging circuit to the battery it would send spikes through all the electronics so I guess I'm lucky nothing was damaged and it got us home.

Freddie17 · Dec 5, 2023

Alibro said:
I think I know why the car was cutting out on Sunday. At least I hope this was the reason.
Some plonker was working at it during the week and forgot to tighten the neg terminal on the battery.
Of course I can't be certain but it seems likely. If there was a lot of sparking from the charging circuit to the battery it would send spikes through all the electronics so I guess I'm lucky nothing was damaged and it got us home.

Well, plonker or not, it makes sense and is the likely explanation. Turning a negative into a positive (pun intended!), at least you are fairly certain what the issue was, and can be assured it was nothing major.
When I have this sort of an issue, my faith in the car is immediately restored.

I just kick myself several times after

Alibro · Dec 7, 2023

Freddie17 said:
Well, plonker or not, it makes sense and is the likely explanation. Turning a negative into a positive (pun intended!), at least you are fairly certain what the issue was, and can be assured it was nothing major.
When I have this sort of an issue, my faith in the car is immediately restored.

I just kick myself several times after

Yip! 100%
I still have some issues to sort with the start up timing but at least I have something to point a finger at for the troubles last Sunday.
Over the last couple of weeks I've been working on getting the heater working but so far with no success. I have a plan B, 12V heater en-route but it is only 500W.

12V/24V Car Vehicle Heater Portable 4 Outlet Heating Windscreen Demister Winter Warmer Defroster 500W For Vehicle RV SUV Truck - AliExpress 34

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It might be enough for the driver foot well but probably not much more.

Freddie17 · Dec 7, 2023

Alibro said:
Yip! 100%
I still have some issues to sort with the start up timing but at least I have something to point a finger at for the troubles last Sunday.
Over the last couple of weeks I've been working on getting the heater working but so far with no success. I have a plan B, 12V heater en-route but it is only 500W.

12V/24V Car Vehicle Heater Portable 4 Outlet Heating Windscreen Demister Winter Warmer Defroster 500W For Vehicle RV SUV Truck - AliExpress 34

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

s.click.aliexpress.com

It might be enough for the driver foot well but probably not much more.

Plan C…

Alibro · Dec 7, 2023

Freddie17 said:
Plan C…

View attachment 304373

Nope, that's the current solution.

Plan C is an Outlander PHEV water heater.
Plan D is a 400V dry PTC heater inside the HVAC instead of the water based heater. I think this would require the dash to come out which I'm not keen on.

And plan E is the FBH which I really don't want to do as it is so noisy and smelly.

Freddie17 · Dec 7, 2023

Yeah - the plan B heater looks a bit ‘wimpish’ to be fair!
However you do it, I’m sure you’ll resolve the issue. You’ve got a bloody Freelander self-converted to an EV, so I’m sure you’ll figure out the most efficient battery-saving way to heat it.

Dont go FBH - kind of goes against everything this project has become, in my view (burning a fossil fuel).

bukko · Dec 7, 2023

Alibro said:
Nope, that's the current solution.
Plan C is an Outlander PHEV water heater.
Plan D is a 400V dry PTC heater inside the HVAC instead of the water based heater. I think this would require the dash to come out which I'm not keen on.
And plan E is the FBH which I really don't want to do as it is so noisy and smelly.

Plan F - move to Barbados!
(I'd say move to Spain, but that has the same downsides as plan E)

Alibro · Dec 7, 2023

I like plan F bestest.

Nodge68 · Dec 8, 2023

The FBH could be justified if you heat your house with kero, where heating the car would be an extension of that.

Environment wise, the FBH does turn nearly all the energy in the fuel into heat, unlike a car engine's 30% efficiently.

Alibro · Dec 8, 2023

Nodge68 said:
The FBH could be justified if you heat your house with kero, where heating the car would be an extension of that.
Environment wise, the FBH does turn nearly all the energy in the fuel into heat, unlike a car engine's 30% efficiently.

I know the environmental damage caused by my wee heater is negligable so my main reason for not using it are the noise and smell of it. I could hear it above the sound of the rattly diseasil engine ticking over.

Nodge68 · Dec 8, 2023

Alibro said:
I know the environmental damage caused by my wee heater is negligable so my main reason for not using it are the noise and smell of it. I could hear it above the sound of the rattly diseasil engine ticking over.

I can understand both of those reasons. I've got a FL1 FBH heating my workshop and it is audible from a good distance. Smell wise, when running on kero and clean internally, it's no more smelly than a conventional heating boiler.

Alibro · Dec 8, 2023

My car had been lying in a shed for a couple of years so when my FBH started it was very smoky but I figured it would clear eventually. It was only started a few times before the engine was removed.
My goal is to get the car heating from the leccy but if I fail it might end up using it.

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