Alibro said:
Back on topic you useless bunch. :p
Nodge and I have been corresponding about the coupler and he has kindly agreed to use his lathe to machine the parts for me. I have most of the stuff required but I need to confirm the thickness of the adapter plate so we know how long to make it. I'm also still waiting for some alloy round bar so that he can machine a spindle to hold the clutch centres in the lathe.
The plan is to use the centre part of the original Freelander clutch friction disc machined down to fit into a piece of pipe. On the other side we will fit the centre part of a clutch disc from a Fiat 126 which is the closest I could find to a match for the motor splines.
This is a rough (very) sketch showing measurements of the motor and gearbox.

View attachment 221709

View attachment 221710

I need to double and treble check these measurements but if they are correct and the adapter plate ends up being 25mm then the coupler will be 90mm long.
This design means there will be no clutch in the car so any gear changing will need to be done carefully. It's not ideal but is the simplest way of avoiding huge expense and complication.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a suitable female spline on the Leaf that it came out of, to fit on to the motor shaft? We tried making female splined couplers to go between an electric motor and a Peugeot gearbox. It didn't end well! Kept ripping the splines out after a few thousand miles. Not sure why. Some of it will probably have been poor machining tolerances once hardened. Seems like a good plan to try and use existing centre plate splines but Fiat 124, is a bit small, is it not? I don't know if the splines in clutch centre plates are hardened but if they are, you might have to bolt / dowel them to the adapter flanges rather than weld, to preserve the heat treatment?
 
Nodge68 said:
The plan is sound Ali.

In theory, you shouldn't need the clutch, like you do with an IC engine. Obviously pulling away with an electric motor isn't difficult, as it starts from rest, rather than idling like an ICE.

Also because the motor rotor has much less mass compared to the rotating mass of an ICE crankshaft/flywheel. This should allow the box synchro rings a good chance of synchronising the rotational differences without a clutch. You should just need to back off the throttle while changing gear, which should allow a smooth change up the box. There shouldn't be any need to change down as you slow down, as the motor can come to a complete stop, which again an ICE can't do. In most situations though, I suspect you could just select a single gear (3rd is a similar ratio to the Leaf's reduction drive), which should suit normal driving.
Click to expand...

I'd have thought 3rd would be OK for most ordinary driving and 2nd for off-road or towing in a hilly area?
 
Alibro said:
From what I've read and seen most normal driving can be done in a single gear and change up for motorway driving.
It means though that regen is an issue as it is supposed to kick in when you take your foot off the throttle. I believe some folk add a button to their gearstick to prevent regen when changing while others have regen kicking in when the brake light is on.
I'm a loooong way from having to worry about that. :eek:
Click to expand...

We ended up putting a pressure switch into one of the front brake lines, set to a very low pressure (5 Bar or something, might even have been 1 Bar) so that regen couldn't possibly happen unless there was at least a small amount of pressure in the brake line. Also, we had a CAN reader listening out for the "ABS intervention" CAN signal. As soon as it saw that, it would kill any regenerative braking until the brake pedal was released and re-applied.
 
Avocet1 said:
Isn't there a suitable female spline on the Leaf that it came out of, to fit on to the motor shaft? We tried making female splined couplers to go between an electric motor and a Peugeot gearbox. It didn't end well! Kept ripping the splines out after a few thousand miles. Not sure why. Some of it will probably have been poor machining tolerances once hardened. Seems like a good plan to try and use existing centre plate splines but Fiat 124, is a bit small, is it not? I don't know if the splines in clutch centre plates are hardened but if they are, you might have to bolt / dowel them to the adapter flanges rather than weld, to preserve the heat treatment?
Click to expand...
I plan to use two clutch disk centres, one to take the drive and a second welded slightly offset to take up any slack as there isn't a clutch centre which fits perfectly.
Yes the Fiat one is small but it's the best fit available.
If this fails then I might use the one in the transmission but I don't want to destroy a valuable transmission just for the splines.
Also this may not be the last car this motor is installed into so having a good working transmission gives me options for the future.
Avocet1 said:
We ended up putting a pressure switch into one of the front brake lines, set to a very low pressure (5 Bar or something, might even have been 1 Bar) so that regen couldn't possibly happen unless there was at least a small amount of pressure in the brake line. Also, we had a CAN reader listening out for the "ABS intervention" CAN signal. As soon as it saw that, it would kill any regenerative braking until the brake pedal was released and re-applied.
Click to expand...
I had originally thought of using the brake light switch but this sounds even better if I can get a suitable sensor. I'll run it past the guys in Openinverter.org when I get to that point as I think Johannas the forum administrator has done something similar.
 
Just read this whole thread and my head is spinning. Amazing work, I am just commenting so I can follow any updates!
 
Yesterday I took out the fuel tank.

IMG_20201031_200805433.jpg
IMG_20201031_201009449.jpg


I had to drop the subframe to get it out but that was a simple job of removing 4 bolts and lowering it on a couple of jacks.
So now there is very little more to remove before starting to install new stuff, the fuel filler and a few other small things is all.
Unfortunately while lifting the tank which really isn't heavy now I felt a twang in my back so there won't be much done for a few days till it settles down again. :eek: :(
 
Getting the tank out is a good way forward Ali.;)
You can now see what space you have for batteries.
If you include fuel tank, boot floor and space in the front, you should have loads of space. ;)
 
Nodge68 said:
Getting the tank out is a good way forward Ali.;)
You can now see what space you have for batteries.
If you include fuel tank, boot floor and space in the front, you should have loads of space. ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, loads of space and even more if I take the fish tank out which is in no way structural. I want to avoid cutting the floor to prevent issues with the authorities so it's nice to see so much space.
 
Alibro said:
Yeah, loads of space and even more if I take the fish tank out which is in no way structural. I want to avoid cutting the floor to prevent issues with the authorities so it's nice to see so much space.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I would replace the fish tank with a flat plate, which will free up about 9" of death for a battery. In reality a battery can be the combined depth of the fish tank and rear silencer, which obviously won't be needed.

Hope your back mends soon. I did a similar thing when doing my FL2 engine repair, while putting the balance shaft assembly back in, which is why a took a couple of weeks off that job.
 
Nodge68 said:
Absolutely. I would replace the fish tank with a flat plate, which will free up about 9" of death for a battery. In reality a battery can be the combined depth of the fish tank and rear silencer, which obviously won't be needed.

Hope your back mends soon. I did a similar thing when doing my FL2 engine repair, while putting the balance shaft assembly back in, which is why a took a couple of weeks off that job.
Click to expand...
LOL, we're a right pair of auld crocks. :p
 
Sorry to hear about your back mate! Ouch!!!

This project is progressing really well, but I am worried about that Fiat 126 clutch spline - there seems to be a huge amount of movement? If the female end of that spline can be harvested from the Leaf's driveline, I'd go with that as Avocet suggested. Failing that, can an alterative flange be attached to the motor?
 
rob_bell said:
Sorry to hear about your back mate! Ouch!!!

This project is progressing really well, but I am worried about that Fiat 126 clutch spline - there seems to be a huge amount of movement? If the female end of that spline can be harvested from the Leaf's driveline, I'd go with that as Avocet suggested. Failing that, can an alterative flange be attached to the motor?
Click to expand...
Sorry Rob I missed your post earlier.
Thanks for the sympathy. My back is sore pretty much 24/7 so I just live with it but last week was nasty and I haven't done much since as you can understand.

As for the coupler, Nodge and I have been discussing this and have come up with a plan. The 126 disc will be the main drive as it fits best but I agree slop is our enemy here. With that in mind we will use the 2nd clutch disc to take up the slack and weld it in the coupler.
This may not be a perfect answer but it should last for a good few years. You might be surprised at how much slack the OEM clutch disc has on the gearbox splines.
For many reasons I want to keep the Leaf transmission as is so will not be touching it unless it is a last resort.
 
Last edited:
Thank goodness! I’ve pulled my back before - it was horrendous!
You need more car DIY yoga. Not so much downward dog but down-in-the-depths-of-the-engine-bay! Lol
 
So the latest update is Nodge is working away at the coupler for me (Thanks Nodge. :)) and I've ordered the alloy plate to make the adapter.
John has come up with a design which should enable me to weld up the coupler in the way mentioned earlier.
The plan is to machine the two main drive disc's to fit into either end of the pipe with a flange to help hold them straight and make the welding easier.
The second disc on the motor end will fit into the pipe and will be welded through holes. This disk is only to take up the slop so it won't need to be welded quite as strongly.
This is a diagram to show what we mean.
Coupler2.jpeg


The adapter plate will be made of 20mm Alloy plate which I ordered today. I originally hoped I could get some from the local scrappies but everything they had was too small so I ordered enough to make two plates. The company will have to cut it from a large piece so it was a lot cheaper per sq m to buy 1m x 0.5m than the amount I need for this car which is only 400mm x 400mm. It means I'll have loads left over for any future projects.
 
I'm going to fit the drive coupling around getting my FL2 fixed and ready to use for the winter. Now the FL1 has found a new home, I've more space to got on top of the FL2.

The drive coupling will be made in a few stages, starting with machining a mandrel out of 30mm diameter alloy bar. The idea of the mandrel is to support all the clutch splines in perfect alignment. This means when I machine the steel tube the splines will remain in alignment, right through to the welding stage. It'll take some time, but I want to do it right, so the Ali has the best chance to weld it as strong as possible.
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm going to fit the drive coupling around getting my FL2 fixed and ready to use for the winter. Now the FL1 has found a new home, I've more space to got on top of the FL2.

The drive coupling will be made in a few stages, starting with machining a mandrel out of 30mm diameter alloy bar. The idea of the mandrel is to support all the clutch splines in perfect alignment. This means when I machine the steel tube the splines will remain in alignment, right through to the welding stage. It'll take some time, but I want to do it right, so the Ali has the best chance to weld it as strong as possible.
Click to expand...
No hurry on this John. ;)
I'm still waiting for the alloy for the adapter plate, then I need to cut, shape and it.
As well as that I still have a load of cleaning to do of the gearbox and IRD.
But more importantly I'm taking it easy for another week or so in the garage as I'm really busy at work and my back can only take so much right now. :(
 
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