GarethFreelander
Member
Thanks Nodge. Will give it a go surely will only help. Will give an update once done
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
If you are in any doubt that the diagnostics device you are using is not talking to the gearbox control unit, I'd take the car along to a land rover specialist/dealer with known F2 diagnostics gear from them to have a look. I haven't bothered getting my own gear, I just take it along to an indie with a T4 system and in exchange for about £15 they'll give me a read out. I'm still well in credit over having my own kit. Admittedly, I'm running a '98 L Series F1 so there's a lot fewer times that a diag kit will be of help - but even so a good bit of kit for an F2 is serious wedge.
GarethFreelander
Member
Ye sounds about right I hear a lot about these gear boxes & Haldex been maintanance free yet many people saying very differently.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
VW AND Audi specify a 20K miles Haldex fluid change. I consider this to be a sensible distance for any Haldex unit.
GarethFreelander
Member
I haven’t no purely because there is no suitable wiring connection for the intake air sensor suggested by most part suppliers and diagrams as well now locationing the boost sensor which appears to be been used as an IAT. I’d be interested to know if anyone with a freelander 2 2010 onwards who has the IAT located on the throttle body has a boost sensor on the intercooler intake?
I will certainly pop the bolt out see what it’s holding in and send more photos.
One other thing to note is the MAF sensor when unplugged changes me air intake temp to -40 degrees. When plugged in -30/-34 degrees so that seems to effect the air intake temp. Yet only has 4 wires on it and I’m led to believe only MAF sensors with 5+ wires are used to measure temperature.
Maybe these changes to sensor location and design are the same on a Range Rover evoque? I’m led to believe they have the same 190bhp engine? If there’s anyone out there who has done any work on one?
GarethFreelander
Member
So when I quickly google evoque intake air temp sensor it matches exactly how mine is. So again the finger points to this sensor...but I’ve replaced it. Could I have bought a dud sensor?
GarethFreelander
Member
GarethFreelander
Member
Right so new sensor ordered, new silicone intercooler pipes ordered & gear box fluid. Will update once complete.
Hey there.
I wondered if you solved your freelander 2 mystery as i am suffering from the same issue and looking for inspiration!
Whilst driving if I read errors I get random gear box ones about ratios. Most popular error though is transmission over temperature. I am wondering if my issue is that I changed the fluid using standard atf-s rather than the magical landrover stuff..
Thanks
James
I wondered if you solved your freelander 2 mystery as i am suffering from the same issue and looking for inspiration!
Whilst driving if I read errors I get random gear box ones about ratios. Most popular error though is transmission over temperature. I am wondering if my issue is that I changed the fluid using standard atf-s rather than the magical landrover stuff..
Thanks
James
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
What year is it?
2007
Have changed the fluid again.. using the right stuff. Ratio errors and hard changes gone for now but on a 100 mile tow today i got transmission over temp again and lost all my torque. I also note that the iat value is 50 to 60 degrees and wonder if it is all related. The fan on radiator doesn't come on except when commanded by ac. I got the engine to 97 degrees whilst stationary with ac off. Fans did not spin.. is this normal??
Can someone tell me at what temp their fan spins with no ac? I used obd to get coolant temps I state above
Thanks
James
Have changed the fluid again.. using the right stuff. Ratio errors and hard changes gone for now but on a 100 mile tow today i got transmission over temp again and lost all my torque. I also note that the iat value is 50 to 60 degrees and wonder if it is all related. The fan on radiator doesn't come on except when commanded by ac. I got the engine to 97 degrees whilst stationary with ac off. Fans did not spin.. is this normal??
Can someone tell me at what temp their fan spins with no ac? I used obd to get coolant temps I state above
Thanks
James
It would be so cool (pardon the pun) if someone could pop out to their (dual radiator fanned) Freelander 2 2.2 and start the car with the ac off and get it up to normal operating temperature then see if the two fans spin!
If they have obd and can look at the coolant to know when then even better.
I have ordered an osciliscope from amazon to look at the pcm to the fan controller so failing any response here that might shed some light on it!
If they have obd and can look at the coolant to know when then even better.
I have ordered an osciliscope from amazon to look at the pcm to the fan controller so failing any response here that might shed some light on it!
I have investigated under the car and checked the turbo output hoses today. They look sound, however the input hose does not.. there has been a lot of oil coming out of the plastic downpipe to rubber union at the turbo. It is everywhere. I cleaned it up, and remade the joint, using some hilomar blue for good measure. I guess tomorrow we will see if that fixes my loss of power when the engine is warm. I am not sure how a leak pre-turbo could cause that? Perhaps because extra air gets in, so that the MAF reading is wrong.. resulting in underfuelling.
GrumpyGel
Well-Known Member
You haven't had much feedback, but I'm sure people are following this.
I know nothing of the setup so can't comment with any help. I'm presuming oil on the air flow to the turbo must be coming from a crank case breather, presumably oil from the turbo itself would get blown further along into the engine. Unless the oil build up is all from after turning the engine off.
Good luck, hope you get it solved.
I know nothing of the setup so can't comment with any help. I'm presuming oil on the air flow to the turbo must be coming from a crank case breather, presumably oil from the turbo itself would get blown further along into the engine. Unless the oil build up is all from after turning the engine off.
Good luck, hope you get it solved.
OK providing feedback on this one in case anyone else hits the issue.
The reduced performance when hot was caused by an interesting strategy the freelander 2 has. Initially it controls fuel pressure regulation with the PCV on the rail instead of the VCV on the pump. This causes lots of back flow along the return line from the rail. This is intentional. In the fuel filter there is a little thermostat where the return line passes over it. It should close at around 40 degrees. So the net result of the above is that initially lots of hot fuel comes back from the fuel pump (heated by the high compression) and warms up the fuel in the filter. This improves emissions by providing fuel at a constant viscosity. Once the Fuel Temperature sensor on the supply line sees fuel at 40 degrees the fueling strategy changes. The freelander stars using the VCV on the fuel pump to regulate pressure (now only using the PCV on the rail for additional regulation). So less fuel comes back along the return line. The valve in the fuel filter also closes, causing returned fuel to go all the way back to the fuel tank instead. All is then good in the world..
However.. If you put in a cheap nasty fuel filter like I did, instead of a Mann one. Then the little temperature valve sticks open, meaning that the fuel in the filter keeps rising in temperature from the fuel that is still coming back from the rail. I measured it rise to 80 degrees. This is detected by the fuel temperature sensor and makes the land rover go into a limp mode (without any sort of logged code in obd!!!).
Resolution - change the fuel filter. If you are having them regularly changed to fix such issues then consider a better brand!
How to test for this:
Start the car and rev at 2500 revs until the temperature reaches 95 degrees in the coolant (measured via obd). Confirm the car is in a state of poor performance. Now measure the voltage across the temperature sensor. if it is around the 0.7v mark (and about 400 - 500 ohmns) then you have an over temperature situation. You can IR temperature scan the filter too if you have one of these bits of kit. When in fault condition you can further prove it to be over temperature by *(temporarily just for the test** replacing the temperature sensor with a 2k resistor. Suddenly the car will be fine again. Test very briefly to avoid permanent engine damage.
As I say the fix is a new fuel filter.
So nice to have all my horses back. The land rover towed like a dream this weekend.
The reduced performance when hot was caused by an interesting strategy the freelander 2 has. Initially it controls fuel pressure regulation with the PCV on the rail instead of the VCV on the pump. This causes lots of back flow along the return line from the rail. This is intentional. In the fuel filter there is a little thermostat where the return line passes over it. It should close at around 40 degrees. So the net result of the above is that initially lots of hot fuel comes back from the fuel pump (heated by the high compression) and warms up the fuel in the filter. This improves emissions by providing fuel at a constant viscosity. Once the Fuel Temperature sensor on the supply line sees fuel at 40 degrees the fueling strategy changes. The freelander stars using the VCV on the fuel pump to regulate pressure (now only using the PCV on the rail for additional regulation). So less fuel comes back along the return line. The valve in the fuel filter also closes, causing returned fuel to go all the way back to the fuel tank instead. All is then good in the world..
However.. If you put in a cheap nasty fuel filter like I did, instead of a Mann one. Then the little temperature valve sticks open, meaning that the fuel in the filter keeps rising in temperature from the fuel that is still coming back from the rail. I measured it rise to 80 degrees. This is detected by the fuel temperature sensor and makes the land rover go into a limp mode (without any sort of logged code in obd!!!).
Resolution - change the fuel filter. If you are having them regularly changed to fix such issues then consider a better brand!
How to test for this:
Start the car and rev at 2500 revs until the temperature reaches 95 degrees in the coolant (measured via obd). Confirm the car is in a state of poor performance. Now measure the voltage across the temperature sensor. if it is around the 0.7v mark (and about 400 - 500 ohmns) then you have an over temperature situation. You can IR temperature scan the filter too if you have one of these bits of kit. When in fault condition you can further prove it to be over temperature by *(temporarily just for the test** replacing the temperature sensor with a 2k resistor. Suddenly the car will be fine again. Test very briefly to avoid permanent engine damage.
As I say the fix is a new fuel filter.
So nice to have all my horses back. The land rover towed like a dream this weekend.
Thanks, it was quite the exploratory journey!
And of course as soon as I posted my end diagnosis on the freel2 forum (where I had also been having this discussion) someone posted a link to someone who had the issue in the past. Shame they hadn't posted that a few days back - would have saved so much heart ache.
https://www.freel2.com/forum/post373945.html#373945
And of course as soon as I posted my end diagnosis on the freel2 forum (where I had also been having this discussion) someone posted a link to someone who had the issue in the past. Shame they hadn't posted that a few days back - would have saved so much heart ache.
https://www.freel2.com/forum/post373945.html#373945
