PopRivet

Well-Known Member
So, even after suffering the uneducated comments from those who simply jump to conclusions, as befits their limited education (that’ll create a Neanderthal storm, I’m sure - lol), as laid down by their own personal thoughts & mental processes, some of which can be seen as suspect… & remedial… I’m adding another piece of useful information, regarding my Freelander 1 TD4 (2006).

And before the usual comments from those who fail to appreciate any kind of learning process, where information that should reach certain brain cells, dendrites and neurons of both hemispheres before reacting in convulsions; please bear with me for a moment - to learn something that is beneficial. It’s payback time, gents! Read & learn. Or live your life in remedial.

I bought a full set of used injectors, matching the type that’s originally fitted by the part numbers, etc. 0445110049 They looked the part when they arrived, clean and almost gleaming.

Having received them, I checked their electrical resistance, which equated to o.6 ohms each. With that consistency between them I conclude they might just be okay to fit and try without doing anything else, especially when their advert said, tried & tested! Yeah – right!!

I even connected them to a 12volt supply, straight from the car’s battery, so no over-volting or ac-ripple to contemplate, with only quick-connections – disconnections to prove they were/might be okay. They seemed fine. They clicked like Larry Grayson tip-toeing on clickity shoes. For those who are too young to know who Larry Grayson was, you’re lucky. lol

The internal solenoids worked, which by listening was heard to be a loud clicking sound, much like Larry’s shoes. lol. And again, tough, if you cannot relate to the story of a famous comedian. Shut-that-door!

I removed the original injectors, a job I’m not so happy about doing, time-and-again. When you remove & refit or replace anything it can add to the life’s fatigue of the mounting bolts, etc. It’s okay for a while, to play with such items, but before you know it an item or the plural will snap or strip. And that’s how it can be for most mechanical items. And who can blame a piece of machinery that gets hot-&-cold each and every time you start and shutdown your car’s engine. I personally feel for my vehicle whenever I drive it. Operating the clutch, pressing down on the Thrust bearing for every gear change – it must be hell for all the connected parts! The gear-cogs too, for moving between the others when going up-or-down ratios…, the pressure of slowing or accelerating as well, applying extreme pressure on the metal-to-metal that takes the strain of what you’re expecting from an engine & transmission. Putting your pedal-to-the-metal exerts enormous exertions upon your car’s/vehicle’s running gear that amounts to moving mountains, I can assure you! A human body would fail before the first gear was getting close to 2nd. If I might come back after death, I pray I do not return as a gearbox! Jeez. Hell would be better.

Anyway, the replacement Injectors failed, completely. The engine would fire a few times before dying, each and every time it was tried. I decided to refit the originals, which by all accounts were far superior to the replacements. And that is what I did. However, I was very instrumental in how I replaced the originals. The seals on the failed replacements were superior to the originals so were fitted instead. I cleaned the bores as well as the injectors, torqueing their fitment to what was required. I cleaned, I fitted, I screwed (sounds suspect there) to what was the original fitting application. I ended up with a motor that still moves and drives like new. And now you, the reader, may be asking, ‘why in the hell did I go to such lengths and expense to replace a set of injectors that seemed to be working okay’? And the answer to that is, if you might care to look back on my previous posts, I wrote how I tested my injectors for their efficiency, where two were questionable. That persuaded me to replace them all, to see how they might affect the running and performance of the engine.

I am now running my car, with the original injectors. It pulls like a train while accelerating like a sports car. It’s really good. I’m sure the two suspect injectors, No’s 2 & 3, are still not operating as they should, but for the time-being, they will suffice.

I will admit to being a perfectionist. I was told I was while serving in the RAF, where none of my aircraft failed or crashed. My teams of personnel helped to keep an equivocal record for excellence and serviceability, second to none. And it’s these same efforts that I apply to my own mechanical pieces-of-art, as I see them. I have this tactile sense of touch to my vehicles, where I feel each and every change of gear, each clutch depress, every time I accelerate or brake. The lights, the switches, the paintwork, the hazards, etc, etc, etc. I treat my car as if it is alive. I need to know it can be relied upon.

And for those who put fuel into the tank with no thoughts of the strains the engine, transmission, suspension, etc, will suffer, then you’re not looking after what is a true piece-of-art, in my opinion.

Please care for your car/vehicle. Learn to respect what you are driving. It will repay your devotion with its own.
 

Attachments

  • injectors.jpg
    injectors.jpg
    209 KB · Views: 222
I don't like to suggest user error as a cause for the duff injectors.
However connecting common rail injectors across an unlimited current source (car battery) is a bad move.
Common rail injectors need to be activated in a very controlled manner. The coil resistance is very low (as you measured). This causes huge current to flow (over 20 Amps), potentially damaging the coil.
The Bosch DDE4 EDC limits injector current to 20 Amps for the initial opening period of a few milliseconds. This is then reduced to a 12 Amps hold current for the remainder of the injection cycle.

So simply connecting the injectors across a battery could well have caused the coils to cook. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the potential outcome of such a test.
 
Last edited:
As I was reading this post I couldn't help wondering if it was a good idea to connect them across a battery. Nodge explained much better than I could the potential pitfalls of doing so.
If the resistance was 0.6 ohms then the current flowing assuming the battery was fully charged so around 12.7V would be 12.7/0.6 so approx 21.2A. I'm no electronics expert but this seems like a lot for a small solenoid to cope with for very long.
 
As I was reading this post I couldn't help wondering if it was a good idea to connect them across a battery. Nodge explained much better than I could the potential pitfalls of doing so.
If the resistance was 0.6 ohms then the current flowing assuming the battery was fully charged so around 12.7V would be 12.7/0.6 so approx 21.2A. I'm no electronics expert but this seems like a lot for a small solenoid to cope with for very long.

20 Amps is a lot Ali. This is why the EDC controls current supplied to the injectors very carefully. It actually uses a capacitor to store the needed current. Switching it into the correct injector in a 2 stage cycle. 20 Amps to initiate the injection, dropping to 12 Amps to hold them open. Obviously the whole injection cycle is over in a few tens of milliseconds. Simply slapped 12 volts from car battery isn't in any way controlled. So I strongly suspect that the injectors are now dead due to the test being carried out.
 
Sorry Pop, It looks like you might have cooked the electronical parts of your injectors. Having said that the injector bits might still be in good condition so forgive me if I'm wrong here, cause you have done much more with your injectors than I ever have, but could you swap the bottom bits with your old injectors to see what happens?
 
A few engineering-type points:

When you’re measuring very low resistances, the meter leads need to be taken into account, and zero’ed out. Or use a Kelvin setup.

The injector solenoids are designed to take VERY brief pulses and move a slug against the pressures inside the rail system. Making them click with uncontrolled current and timing, unloaded, is not what they were built for.

With brief DC pulsing, it’s not just about resistance. The solenoids will limit their own current in the short term due to their inductance. As they build a magnetic field, the current will be kept to manageable levels; the window for this is determined by the coil and what it’s working against. After this design window, the coil just heats up like a bulb filament. We’re talking milliseconds here.

Overheating will damage the insulation on the coil windings, causing shorts which are hard to detect with an ohmmeter. An inductance meter or even a coil ‘ringer’ is a better bet.

Hope that was interesting. Sometimes it’s nice to know why not to do something.
 
I plan to 'Pull my Injector(s) tomorrow..used to be a daily thing but with age etc.....

Seriously it is time though. Clouds of smoke (Admiral Beattie would be proud) that would bring myself into focus with 'The Law' means this TD4 isn't safe to drive 'as is' and I have done all the 'cheap' stuff so now it's time to get serious. All this depends on me managing to replace the passenger side hand brake cable first thing tomorrow. Had a very unpleasant struggle today doing very basic mechanicals, on my back, in very cold conditions.....and only one 'bolt' 'screwed the nut'.....if you catch my drift.

'Anyhoooo'...does anyone knew the part number for the handbrake 'fixing bolts' that secure the cables from inside the car to the underside..... :-S? or the part number for the bolt securing the cable just before it enters the rear drum? .....My grinder 'fecked' them......Not me!!!
 
I plan to 'Pull my Injector(s) tomorrow..used to be a daily thing but with age etc.....

Seriously it is time though. Clouds of smoke (Admiral Beattie would be proud) that would bring myself into focus with 'The Law' means this TD4 isn't safe to drive 'as is' and I have done all the 'cheap' stuff so now it's time to get serious. All this depends on me managing to replace the passenger side hand brake cable first thing tomorrow. Had a very unpleasant struggle today doing very basic mechanicals, on my back, in very cold conditions.....and only one 'bolt' 'screwed the nut'.....if you catch my drift.

'Anyhoooo'...does anyone knew the part number for the handbrake 'fixing bolts' that secure the cables from inside the car to the underside..... :-S? or the part number for the bolt securing the cable just before it enters the rear drum? .....My grinder 'fecked' them......Not me!!!
FS108161 [ M8 x 16 - flanged head ]
 
I plan to 'Pull my Injector(s) tomorrow..used to be a daily thing but with age etc.....

Seriously it is time though. Clouds of smoke (Admiral Beattie would be proud) that would bring myself into focus with 'The Law' means this TD4 isn't safe to drive 'as is' and I have done all the 'cheap' stuff so now it's time to get serious. All this depends on me managing to replace the passenger side hand brake cable first thing tomorrow. Had a very unpleasant struggle today doing very basic mechanicals, on my back, in very cold conditions.....and only one 'bolt' 'screwed the nut'.....if you catch my drift.

'Anyhoooo'...does anyone knew the part number for the handbrake 'fixing bolts' that secure the cables from inside the car to the underside..... :-S? or the part number for the bolt securing the cable just before it enters the rear drum? .....My grinder 'fecked' them......Not me!!!
I took the injectors out of my Zafira two days ago and cleaned them. Still get a cloud of smoke and rough idle in the morning but it seems to run a bit better once warmed up. Defo worth a try if you're taking them out anyway.
If you're interested I'll tell more about how to take them apart.
 
Ali, any advice would be much appreciated... Have had another frustrating day today. Think the the LH rear brake assembly is slightly ''skewed' as the hand brake 'rod' that is connected to the from shoe seeks to be binding, unlike the other side. Not sure whether they are OEM but think I will dismantle the LH side and havd a looksee.

Been working outside the past two days, most of today in the snow which hasn't helped, I am getting old. Seems our TD4 hasn't been looked underneath that well....I see (surface) corrosion everywhere and brake lines that will need changing before the next MOT. I think I am the first 'owner' to get to see underneath.

'ANYHOO', didn't get to pull the injectors, so they won't be getting serviced/reconditioned before next year.
 
Ali, any advice would be much appreciated... Have had another frustrating day today. Think the the LH rear brake assembly is slightly ''skewed' as the hand brake 'rod' that is connected to the from shoe seeks to be binding, unlike the other side. Not sure whether they are OEM but think I will dismantle the LH side and havd a looksee.

Been working outside the past two days, most of today in the snow which hasn't helped, I am getting old. Seems our TD4 hasn't been looked underneath that well....I see (surface) corrosion everywhere and brake lines that will need changing before the next MOT. I think I am the first 'owner' to get to see underneath.

'ANYHOO', didn't get to pull the injectors, so they won't be getting serviced/reconditioned before next year.
No worries mate.
The injectors came out of my Zaffy easy peasy but I've never taken them out of a Freelander so not sure how easy it is. I used a claw hammer to lever them out
(honest gov, I dint hit em wiv it) but they came out much easier than I expected. Once out I held them in a vice between some bits of wood and loosened off the tips with a long 15mm socket.
Injectors have some tiny parts in them and a spring so be careful. If you're stupid like me you'll drop something opening the first one and only realise after putting the second back together......Doh!
I took the tips off and sprayed brake cleaner in them. The tip on my brake cleaner fitted nicely in the tip so I could see the spray pattern clearly.
After cleaning everything they went back together easily.
The only Issue I had (once I'd found the washer that fell out of number 1) was that I was stupid enough to start the job without new copper washers. Don't do that as when I started the car one of the injectors had diesel leaking past it. I took it out, reversed the washer and all was OK again but I should have had new washers before starting.
Here is another thread about the same thing.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/a-simple-method-of-testing-your-injectors.321857/
 
Cheers, Ali..I think one of the critical components is working on a 'hot' engine so that things are 'expanded' and easier to free off. Regards the bits you dropped, that is one of my concerns, with ratther poor eyesight I dread losing any part so small. Thanks for the heads up regards the washers, that was on my purchase list anyway but 'reversing them to 'get by' is worth knowing..(as it it worked!)

Cheers, Bro..
 
Cheers, Ali..I think one of the critical components is working on a 'hot' engine so that things are 'expanded' and easier to free off. Regards the bits you dropped, that is one of my concerns, with ratther poor eyesight I dread losing any part so small. Thanks for the heads up regards the washers, that was on my purchase list anyway but 'reversing them to 'get by' is worth knowing..(as it it worked!)

Cheers, Bro..
One of the parts is the size of a pin head and took me a few minutes to figure out where it went but became obvious pretty quickly. Just put on your strongest glasses when working on them.
 

Similar threads