redhand said:

Jai just to clarify the rules say you can tow a braked trailer if the trailer's mam is less than the kerbweight of the towing vehicle.and as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle don't exceed 3500kg. Because the MAM of a 90 or 110 on it's own is 3500kg you can't attach a braked trailer to it. unless you have B+E on your licence

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Thats what I was told at the beginning but when I phoned up DVLA the woman from Swansea checked my vehicle details LR 90 and told me I could in fact tow a trailer that has a MAM of 1259KG. I asked for written confirmation as I was surprised what she had just told me. That was Friday Lunchtime so I await written confirmation. I suspect she got her stuff wrong but If I get written confirmation I will let everyone Know.

Jai

jai_landrover said:

Thats what I was told at the beginning but when I phoned up DVLA the woman from Swansea checked my vehicle details LR 90 and told me I could in fact tow a trailer that has a MAM of 1259KG. I asked for written confirmation as I was surprised what she had just told me. That was Friday Lunchtime so I await written confirmation. I suspect she got her stuff wrong but If I get written confirmation I will let everyone Know.

Jai

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Think she got it wrong. hangon and I'll find the blurb they send out.

Right here it is.

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:

a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Whereas

the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle
Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.


The highlighted bit in red is what screws you up as a 90 has a MAM of 3.5 tonnes any trailer you add is going to take you over the mam limit with the exception of the unbraked trailer at 750kg.

I came acros this on a Website:

Driving Licence Category / Vehicle Information: Car & trailer, B+E; tractors, F / agricultural vehicles & HGV / LGV; C,C+E.


Most caravans when fully loaded will be over 750 kg. This limit can be exceeded without taking a B+E test under some circumstances: The gross laden weight / MAM of a trailer can be upto the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, up to a maximum of 3500 kg in total for the combination. e.g. Land Rover Defender 90 has an unladen weight of 1740kg and therefore you might think you would be able to tow a trailer with a MAM of 1740kg, but beware that the load capacity of the Land Rover, over 20kg, would put you over the 3500kg MAM for the combination! So as the MAM of the Land Rover is 2400kg you can only tow a trailer with a MAM of 1100kg (If your trailer has a MAM above 1100kg but only weighs 1100kg because it is not fully loaded it would still require a B+E licence). If you had a Land Rover Freelander weighing 1640kg unladen, with a 2060kg MAM then your trailer could have up to a 1440kg MAM and would not exceed the 3500kg MAM for the combination and therefore only a category B licience is required (If your trailer has a MAM above 1440kg but only weighs 1440kg because it is not fully loaded it would still require a B+E licence). e.g. If you have a trailer with a 1400kg MAM you could tow it with a Land Rover Freelander (1640kg unladen / 2060kg MAM) without B+E, but the same trailer would need B+E to be towed by a Seat Ibiza, and the actual load towed would be less as the Seat Ibiza towing capacity is only 1200kg. If your trailer is below 750 kg MAM it can be towed by a vehicle up to 3500 kg making a total train weight of 4250 kg.* The best way to check is take whatever you are towing with to your local public weighbridge and get its unladen weight. When you know the unladen weight and MAM of the towing vehicle & the MAM of the trailer/caravan and the combination, you can work out if a B+E licience is required. You can find the MAM from the manufacturers handbook / plate. Also check the manufacturers plate to be sure none of the axle/nose weights or MAM for any trailer are exceeded.

All trailers over 750kg MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) should display a manufacturers plate with the MAM of the trailer - Remember this is the weight that counts regardless of the actual weight being less.

If your trailer has not got a manufacturers plate showing the MAM you should
not exceed 750kg.

?????

I thought MAM is the manufacturers max permitted weight of vehicle and its load No way a 90 can carry its own weight and load up to 3.5Tonnes. Mabe it can legally tow 3.5 tonnes yes but the weight of the 90 plus its load cannot be 3.5 tonnes no way. Mabe we are getting things confused here me thinks
Jai

Actually you might be right there I have always assumed the mam of a 90 was 3500kg but having just read this and checked it seems I was wrong and it is 2400. so you could tow a trailer with a mam of 1100kg a 110 has a MAM of 3050kg and an unladen weight of approx 1700kg so the max you could tow with a 110 would be the unbraked trailer. Perhaps this is were I screwed up and I've been assumin the two of them had the same MAM.

Ok This is the New Defender not my old 1986 model but its the most accurate info available at the mo.

Assuming we have muddled up legal towing limit 3500Kgs with MAM (I believe to be 2400Kgs If my theory is correct).

If im wrong I stand corrected. but here are the stats from LR below:


Defender 90 (All weights in kg) STANDARD Pick up
Hard Top
Station Wagon

Gross vehicle
2400
2400
2550

Minimum Kerb weight*
1705
1750
1889

Maximum Payload**
695
650
661


Ok so the MAM or gross vehicle weight for a hard top is 2400Kgs that leaves 1100Kgs left not quite enough for my sankey but ALmost Sankey widetrack is 1259Kgs

Now If my old 1986 model has a lower MAM than 2400, Say 159Kgs lighter I could Just get away with towing my sankey Pray PrayPray! I doubt it because from memory old 90's could carry 850Kgs of carrying capacity.

jai_landrover said:

Ok This is the New Defender not my old 1986 model but its the most accurate info available at the mo.

Assuming we have muddled up legal towing limit 3500Kgs with MAM (I believe to be 2400Kgs If my theory is correct).

If im wrong I stand corrected. but here are the stats from LR below:


Defender 90 (All weights in kg) STANDARD Pick up
Hard Top
Station Wagon

Gross vehicle
2400
2400
2550

Minimum Kerb weight*
1705
1750
1889

Maximum Payload**
695
650
661


Ok so the MAM or gross vehicle weight for a hard top is 2400Kgs that leaves 1100Kgs left not quite enough for my sankey but ALmost Sankey widetrack is 1259Kgs

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See My post above and older 90's have an unladen weight of between 1483kg and 1603kg depending on model and engine All have a MAM (GVW) of 2400kg so load capacity varies between 797kg and 913kg the 2.5 Petrol softop having the lowest kerb weight and therefore highest payload capacity.

Once we suss this out we can have a definate answer for all models what MAM of trailer you Can tow legally. plus it would be nice to know. Jai

Ok MAM or GVW is all the same I suppose that is because the suspension components springs, shocks, and mountings are all the very similar as are axle load ratings from 1986 til Present day. I need to get a trailer stamped with a MAM of 1100Kgs.

Well we can safely say that
Pre 1990, 90's have a MAM of 2400 and 110's have a MAM of 3050

So an 1100kg trailer MAM for the 90 and an unbraked trailer only for the 110.

For the new (Puma) defenders it's

..........Pick up.........................Hard Top.........................Station Wagon

...........2400.............................2400...................................2550
Trailer
MAM....1100kg..........................1100kg.................................950kg

Thats cool I just need to clarify the sankey is defo out 500Kgs seems alot for the trailer weight mabe im well off with its MAM. and the manual doesnt want to load typical! Jai

Doh!

Normal Sankey trailer weight is 357.4Kgs plus 750Kgs thats 7.4Kgs over the limit now its getting stupid!

I've just found a site with the 3/4ton sankey and it gives unladen weight at 357.4kg + 750kg load weight that would put you 7.4 KG over but I'm assuming that would have had a few bits and bobs that could be removed to reduce the weight by 7.5kg and even if it was that much over weight I doubt anyone was pull you for it.

Basically I have no option but to change trailer unless there is a sankey trailer out there somewhere that is stamped for less that its designed limits i.e some dodgy bastid with a stamp machine and a plate.

I think I will risk it towing the trailer for now. I have had it way over and had no probs I delivered a heaped sankey full of top soil to our local model flying field down quite a steep hill comming back was painful with the N/a 2nd gear was too low 3rd was too high was a bloody steep hil though. Jai.

Cheers Redhand,

Jai

jai_landrover said:

Basically I have no option but to change trailer unless there is a sankey trailer out there somewhere that is stamped for less that its designed limits i.e some dodgy bastid with a stamp machine and a plate.

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weigh it on a weighbridge to check the weight, if it's been fettled with it may be lighter than 357.4kg. I'm sure a trailer place would replate it for you. and round it down to 350kg without too much of a problem.

redhand said:

weigh it on a weighbridge to check the weight, if it's been fettled with it may be lighter than 357.4kg. I'm sure a trailer place would replate it for you. and round it down to 350kg without too much of a problem.

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But that would only increase the payload weight by 7.4kg, surely you should get the plated MAW of the trailer reduced to stay within the combined MAW...

Not at all if the unladen weight was recorded as 350kg and the payload rating was stamped at 750kg it would solve the problem.