Douglas A. Shrader wrote:
> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
> news:isCLb.346277$Y72.281746@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Douglas A. Shrader wrote:
>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>> news:FNfLb.338208$Y72.4326@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>> Douglas A. Shrader wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> If your 4WD setup reduces your turning ability and eats tyres
>>>>>> like that it must be a very bad setup.
>>>>>
>>>>> You simply cannot turn the front wheels as sharply when you have
>>>>> an axle trying to turn also as you can with no turning axle. Even
>>>>> the part time 4x4 will bind when making a sharp turn in 4 wheel
>>>>> drive mode.
>>>>>
>>>> What are you talking about? My axle doesn't turn - I doubt yours
>>>> does either! I expect part-time 4WD to bind when turning, but not a
>>>> permanent 4WD system with 3 diffs.
>>>
>>> I think I see the problem here. I am not talking about a permanent 4
>>> wheel drive with 3 diffs, I'm talking about full time four wheel
>>> drive, which only has two diffs. The two diff setup with no option
>>> to use two wheel drive has always been call Full time four wheel
>>> drive, long before I ever heard of the diffs being used, and that
>>> is the diffintion I think of when someone says fulltime.
>>>
>> If you have fulltime 4WD with only 2 diffs, how is the difference in
>> distance travelled by the front and rear axles on solid surfaces?
>
>
> Did you really have to post this exact same question four times?
>
It hasn't been answered yet, so yes. . . . . .
>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure not all full time 4x4's eat tires like that Jeep did, but
>>>>> they still have accelerated tire wear, now way around it.
>>>>>
>>>> Why? 200hp divided by 4 wheels driven is 50hp each, half that of
>>>> 2WD. As long as you have a well designed 3 diff 4WD system wear
>>>> will not increase over 2WD.
>>>
>>> See above.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My tyres (with fulltime 4WD) last 40,000 miles and
>>>>>> handling is unaffected. As for fuel consumption, the savings are
>>>>>> very marginal from what I have experienced, perhaps there are
>>>>>> some figures that would demonstrate the savings? As for wear and
>>>>>> tear, well it must be a delicate vehicle if driving your 4WD in
>>>>>> 4WD wears it out prematurely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drive a part time 4x4 and you wouldn't make such statements.
>>>>> Tires, sure, you get 40,000 in fulltime, you might get 60,000 on
>>>>> the same tires with part time, and your handling is affected, you
>>>>> are just compensating for it. Milage varies greatly, large
>>>>> decrease when driving in four wheel drive mode, even the owners
>>>>> manuals will tell you that, not to mention the hit you see when
>>>>> you refuel.
>>>>>
>>>> I own a part-time 4WD LR Series 2. The tyres don't last any longer
>>>> than my Discovery. I'm not compensating for the fact that my Disco
>>>> handles
>>> better -
>>>> it handles better *because* it is 4WD. When I drive my SII in 2 or
>>>> 4WD the mileage varies by 1mpg at most.
>>>
>>>
>>> See above.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point of full-time 4WD is that it is always there when you
>>>>>> need it. You hit a greasy bit of tarmac, its already there,
>>>>>> pulling out of a wet junction - already there. Patchy snow
>>>>>> covered road with some clear tarmac, already there. Towing heavy
>>>>>> loads on road etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> THe point of learning to drive, you don't need it there. Hit a
>>>>> greasy bit of tarmac, who cares, just go on across, you don't need
>>>>> four wheel drive for that. Wet junction, same thing, even if it's
>>>>> solid ice you don't need four wheel drive, you just need driving
>>>>> ability. None of the items you listed require four wheel drive,
>>>>> sure in some cases it makes it a bit easier, but not required by
>>>>> any means
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah right. And if I eat enough carrots I don't need headlights
>>>> either. . . . . . Makes me wonder why all these idiots buy 4WD.
>>>
>>> Now your being silly, I expected better from you. The road was snow
>>> and ice covered this morning here, I had no trouble making it to
>>> work in 2 wheel drive. 4 wheel drive is used when there are four
>>> foot drifts across the road, not patches of snow here and there.
>>>
>> I didn't say you couldn't drive in bad weather without 4WD, but it
>> does make it easier, just like night driving with headlights is
>> easier than without.
>
>
> And if you read my original post I said 4WD makes it easier but is not
> required, whereapon you decided to say something silly.
>
You said no-one who was a good driver needs 4WD. I simply said the same
applies to headlights.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if part-time is so good, why all manufacturers have or
>>>>>> are dumping it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many good ideas are left behind because the general public is to
>>>>> dumb to survive without help. Sure there are smart individuals but
>>>>> they don't buy enough to control the market. Please don't take
>>>>> that as a personal insult, it isn't intended as such. Don't know
>>>>> about your country but quality is fading fast here because to
>>>>> many people base purchase decisions on price. Why spend $20.00 on
>>>>> a wrench when I can buy this one for $2.00? Then when the $2.00
>>>>> bends they gripe about it "they don't build things like they used
>>>>> to", then they go out and buy another $2.00 wrench. Part time is
>>>>> great for people like me, I really don't care what you want to
>>>>> drive. You asked for reasons, I gave you reasons. To and for me
>>>>> they are valid, to each his own.
>>>>
>>>> As I said before I own bothe full and part-time 4WD vehicles, so I
>>>> get a good view of both.
>>>
>>> See above, what you and I were calling fulltime are not the same
>>> vehicles. Tell me, does your part time have two or three diffs?
>>>
>> My part-time system has 2 diffs - I can't understand how a permanent
>> 4WD system with only 2 instead of 3 diffs could allow for rotational
>> differences between front and rear axles. What vehicles have a
>> permanent 4WD system with 2 diffs?
>
> Examples listed in other post. I do wish you wouldn't ask the same
> question four times in four different posts.
> The part you don't understand is the part that made me state part
> time is better than full time, for the reasons I gave in my very
> first post. Please, seriously, reread all the posts, everything you
> are asking here has already been explained.
>
I have. I can't understand why you call it full-time 4WD when clearly it is
designed not to be used on paved roads as it has no way of allowing for
inter-axle rotational differences. It appears from your description to be
part-time 4WD without the option of 2WD for road use which is amazing.
>
>>
>>> It is fair to say that your reasons are vaild to you and
>>>> I respect that, I do suspect that the real problem is the lack of
>>>> availability of decent permanent 4WD system in US vehicles. As you
>>>> say, cars are cheaper in the US and purchased more on price than
>>>> here in my experience which is why I thin low-tech is more
>>>> acceptable as long as the price is also low.
>>>
>>> You thin? ;-)
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong by all means - which vehciles in the US come
>> with permanent 4WD?
>
> Permanet four wheel drive is the term I used for vehicles with three
> diferentials. Full time four wheel drives included the Jeep I listed
> in the first post and the others listed there as well. Now, why did
> you ask this four times in four different posts all made by you at
> the same time?
Coz this is the 7th time you've skirted the question. . . . . . ;-)
--
Julian
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