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H&I P38

Member
Hi engine gurus,

My 2001 4.6 looks as though it needs replacing with a newer liner fixed unit. Mine is doing, as I now find out, the classic over heating other than when driving on the flat at or under 1500rpm. I've changed the water pump thermostat and expansion bottle cap and bypassed the heater matrix. It still does it when under pressure going up hill or higher revs!

I'm looking at long units from WDrake & Turner that have been top hatted, the Turner with 45k and the Drake with 20k miles, with provenance via engine numbers, they are the same price.

The question being which one if either, or does anyone know of a unit that's been done that's in good shape?

Your thoughts greatly appreciated as those that have gone down this route will know £4K+ for a long engine is chunky, trying not to do that but don't want to buy another problem either. Many thanks..
 
Not sure exactly where you are coming from here. If it's any consolation there isn't necessarily any connection between a RV8's slipped liner & overheating, which can be caused by several things including a clogged radiator, which you haven't mentioned. What makes you think you have a liner problem, do you have tapping noises when the engine is at running temperature for example?
 
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norseman said:
Not sure exactly where you are coming from here. If it's any consolation there isn't necessarily any connection between a RV8's slipped liner & overheating, which can be caused by several things including a clogged radiator, which you haven't mentioned. What makes you think you have a liner problem, do you have tapping noises when the engine is at running temperature for example?
Click to expand...
Thanks norseman, sorry not wanting to write too long a post... additional info, flushed the rad, no broken fins or crimped and had a heat sensitive camera on the rad showing graded heat flow vertically. Also a camera in cyl 7 showing white spots on the top of the piston where as the others were clear..also using Fuchs Fricofin LL coolant...

No tapping noise, also did a pressure test at the cap 10psi with a small loss of pressure say 1-2psi after 10mins. Also did cylinder7 pressure test at near bottom dead centre with a small loss, c 1psi..!
 
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Additionally I should probably mention this all happened quite suddenly, hilly route etc. Having just done 1500 miles the prior week with no discernible problem, including London traffic then a 15 hour return to the H&I's
 
Commiserations on the tragedy that has befallen your P38.
If, as you have concluded there is a problem with water loss into the engine then perhaps a removal of the heads and inspection of the gasket(s) is your first port of call?
Could be something as simple as needing a replacement of the head gaskets and maybe a check for head warp and a skim rather than a whole new lump?
Most folks who do replace their engines do indeed select one with top-hat liners that cannot slip. The engine you have you know what the problems are and its general health/power, new/reconditioned ones you don't.
Tough call I guess.
 
Thanks Dan & Moron, rads ok, heat camera indicates reasonable verticals spread of heat and fan is good..the trouble is and this is where the judgment call comes in, those in the trade..say liner..the head may be slightly warped but given the gasket is still intact there would be a slight leak under intact gasket if the liner had dropped and it is isn't it suspicious that cyl 7 has spotting where the others are clear? I'd love it to be the head only, trouble is out here the resolution and finding a man who can wield a good spanner isn't easy..unless some nice person fancies combining a few days away on this lovely Isle get paid and have a holiday..ha if you don't ask..etc...
 
Pull the head and have a look see, before doing that remove the plugs and check if any/no7 is steamed cleaned as it sounds like you have found which cylinder is at fault.
2015-04-21 17.08.52.jpg
My headgasket
 
Sounds like a head gasket to me, but at least you are receiving plenty of advice from those more in the know than I.
The concept of top hat liners also confuses me, sure if you trap the liner it can't move but that very situation is caused by the block cracking behind the liner, so how does top-hat engineering prevent that happening ?
 
norseman said:
Sounds like a head gasket to me, but at least you are receiving plenty of advice from those more in the know than I.
The concept of top hat liners also confuses me, sure if you trap the liner it can't move but that very situation is caused by the block cracking behind the liner, so how does top-hat engineering prevent that happening ?
Click to expand...
Because the liners are "liners" and NOT the block itself maybe? :D:D:D
Whereas a liner can slip down and a crack in the block can be seen in a cylinder as a result?
I don't know...I am just guessing. The general wisdom is that top-hat liners are a much safer bet and prevent minute fractures in the block making their way into a cylinder.
I know nothing though. I do not have any spanner-skilzzzz.
 
norseman said:
Sounds like a head gasket to me, but at least you are receiving plenty of advice from those more in the know than I.
The concept of top hat liners also confuses me, sure if you trap the liner it can't move but that very situation is caused by the block cracking behind the liner, so how does top-hat engineering prevent that happening ?
Click to expand...
DanClarke said:
Because the liners are "liners" and NOT the block itself maybe? :D:D:D
Whereas a liner can slip down and a crack in the block can be seen in a cylinder as a result?
I don't know...I am just guessing. The general wisdom is that top-hat liners are a much safer bet and prevent minute fractures in the block making their way into a cylinder.
I know nothing though. I do not have any spanner-skilzzzz.
Click to expand...
it is the block that cracks, and with a std liner the gasses can make there way down between both, with a top hat you seal the top of the cylinder, the block is still cracked but in effect youve fitted a wet liner
 
jamesmartin said:
it is the block that cracks, and with a std liner the gasses can make there way down between both, with a top hat you seal the top of the cylinder, the block is still cracked but in effect youve fitted a wet liner
Click to expand...

Thank you for the explanation James, something of a damage limitation exercise ?
 
To all that posted back in April thank you. Now in funds and not being a spanner chap, I need to find someone preferably in Scotland that can undertake the re-engineering of my engine. I thought I had found a place in Glasgow but have been warned off and am rather uncertain about buying a prior used engine now residing in a scrap yard, even if ex Turner or Drake, due to how was it looked after, as high ZDDP oil as Turners kindly informed me, seems a must use item.
Yes I know I could go to RPI and the above mentioned but £5-6k feels chunky even if the RR is in good condition as mine is...
All thoughts gratefully received, even if it is, well you've no other choice than suck it up and look big
 
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