DPG213

Member
Morning

I’ve got a series 1 109 with a 2l Diesel engine which is, as you can imagine, fairly sluggish by modern vehicle standards. As I use the vehicle daily I’d like to give it a bit more pep and increase its top speed beyond 50mph - driving 6 hours on holiday to Scotland isn’t too pleasurable. Is there anything I could do to this original engine to increase drivability or is money better spent fitting a v8 or tdi? I have a tdi in a series 2a and whilst it returns decent economy and a lot of torque a v8 sounds tempting... On the other hand, what about a 2.25 from a s2 or 3? I’ve had no experience with those. In regards to engine conversions, if this is deemed the best way forward, how much would I expect to pay a garage to carry it out and for parts as I don’t have the time/ knowhow to undertake a job this big myself at the moment?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
 
I applaud your intention to do a 12 hour round trip is an S1 diesel!
I'm not sure I'd want to do much more than 50mph in a series 1 though, I'd question if you have the right car for the job? 'keeping it original' aside, how fast do you want to go!? 60? 70? I think you'd want to replace more than just the engine to do that, comfort will be an issue, as will braking, handling and durability
Just my opinion
 
It’s a heart over head decision! The 2a is much more practical in every conceivable way and the spec of it is also much more impressive however I still think that’s the one to let go (I’ll be beaten like yesterday’s beef if I suggest keeping both). I don’t need it to do anything major, I’m quite happy, much to the annoyance of everyone else, sitting at 55-60mph if possible. Just at the moment 45-50mph is a bit of a ball ache on my longer journeys - anything over 25miles.
 
My series 3 109 station wagon has the 2.25 petrol engine and although it will do 60 on a flat road, it's pushing it to the limit. It's happier at 50, so if your series 1, 2l engine is doing 50, I'd say that is good. It would be a shame to ruin the originality by sticking a bigger engine in. Any engine you may want to replace the original with may have problems unless you find a recently reconditioned one. The amount of work necessary to fit a v8 and gearbox is quite substantial and the cost of a garage doing the work will be high. Imagine garage labour rates are £75 per hour and the work takes 3 or 4 days that's over £2000 and then there is the cost of the engine, gearbox and various other bits and pieces. At the end of it you won't see much change out of £5000 if you are lucky.

Col
 
It’s a heart over head decision! The 2a is much more practical in every conceivable way and the spec of it is also much more impressive however I still think that’s the one to let go (I’ll be beaten like yesterday’s beef if I suggest keeping both). I don’t need it to do anything major, I’m quite happy, much to the annoyance of everyone else, sitting at 55-60mph if possible. Just at the moment 45-50mph is a bit of a ball ache on my longer journeys - anything over 25miles.
I know what you mean, the most I ever did in my 2A with a 2.25 petrol was around 2.5 hours, I used to tow a dive boat to the Welsh coast. trundling at 45-50 isn't so bad once you're out of the heavy local traffic
 
Keeping the original diesel then, is there much that can be done to that? Even for a small increase in power? Or is it almost too agricultural to gain? How easy is it to fit a 2.25 diesel from a S2/3?

Cheers
 
I've often wondered if it's the engine or the gearbox that is a limiting factor speed wise, not having a reliable tacho, I've no idea how many revs the engine is doing. I always the gearbox will blow up before the engine.

Col
 
Morning

I’ve got a series 1 109 with a 2l Diesel engine which is, as you can imagine, fairly sluggish by modern vehicle standards. As I use the vehicle daily I’d like to give it a bit more pep and increase its top speed beyond 50mph - driving 6 hours on holiday to Scotland isn’t too pleasurable. Is there anything I could do to this original engine to increase drivability or is money better spent fitting a v8 or tdi? I have a tdi in a series 2a and whilst it returns decent economy and a lot of torque a v8 sounds tempting... On the other hand, what about a 2.25 from a s2 or 3? I’ve had no experience with those. In regards to engine conversions, if this is deemed the best way forward, how much would I expect to pay a garage to carry it out and for parts as I don’t have the time/ knowhow to undertake a job this big myself at the moment?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
I would give careful consideration to the financial aspects of that.
Reasonably original Series 1s sell fairly well these days.
Fitting any non original engine is likely to reduce re-sale value.
And fitting a Tdi or a V8, combined with other changes to make the vehicle safe and pleasant to drive with the increased power may invalidate Historic Vehicle status.
So you might end up spending 5k, and ending up paying VED, more insurance, and getting an MOT every year as well.

If you are in Series 1 owners club, they may be able to advise on all those issues.
 
I’ve also got the 2.25l petrol in my series 3 and like Col can push it to over 60 on a motorway - maybe even 70 downhill with a tailwind - but it’s not happy and wouldn’t recommend it. Sits comfortably at about 55-60 on a long run though but assume the overdrive which I have helps so that might be an option to look at? Wouldn’t waste the effort swapping for petrol just to get another 5 or so mph out of it.
 
My s2 had the 2.0 diesel. what a power house, i am amazed you managed 45/50 mph in the thing!
I had a later 2.25 injection pump on mine, this was advanced as far as I dared, and it was still slow, well tbh it was sort of okay on the flat and downhill, any hill of pretty much any sort was a slow experience, motorway work was just plain dangerous.
Bluebell hill in Kent 3rd gear overdrive flat out 30 mph all the way to the top, she got proper warm doing that.

Tdi with 3.54 diffs now much better, but also much noisier if you rag it, not as bad as you think as you had to rag the 2.0 all the time just to get anywhere.
Think tdi in 109 there is an issue with turbo fouling chassis?

Agree with comment above ref cars value and engine swaps, but so long as you keep the old 2.0 you can always swap back.

Speak to Glencoyne he is bit of a master on the subject.

http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/
 
Been considering this one. Seem to remember that Series 1 LWB were 107s, not 109s?

Not that I think it will make it any easier to install a Tdi.


Tbh my knowledge of s1 is limited, I did have a late s1 58 swb with a york diesel, that was not a good engine, i hydrauliced that one! replaced it with a Di engine, noisy but much better.

Think the hardest bit nowadays is going to be finding a good 200tdi.

Pretty certian tdi makes diddly squat to the historic status bit?
 
Tbh my knowledge of s1 is limited, I did have a late s1 58 swb with a york diesel, that was not a good engine, i hydrauliced that one! replaced it with a Di engine, noisy but much better.

Think the hardest bit nowadays is going to be finding a good 200tdi.

Pretty certian tdi makes diddly squat to the historic status bit?
I have never had a Series 1 either, although I have had all the other Series, in LWB and SWB.

Historic reg, I am not certain. It is a new process compared to my Land Rover ownership.
If you send off the re-registration form with no changes, it goes through on the nod.
If you state that the vehicle has been built from parts of other vehicles, you have to fill in a more complicated form, which has boxes for numbers of engine, gearbox, axles, etc. DVLA then assess whether they think the vehicle qualifies, and re register accordingly.

The legislation was not aimed at old Land Rovers, it was drafted with vintage cars in mind, and some of them are incredibly valuable, and all the parts can be made in a basic metalwork shop. Which incentivises people to get an identity, and build a car to go with it.
Old Land Rovers are caught in the process designed to prevent this practice.
In the real world, it probably depends on how honest you are. If you tick the box that says the vehicle is largely as first built, I suspect they just re-register it.
 
Been considering this one. Seem to remember that Series 1 LWB were 107s, not 109s?

Not that I think it will make it any easier to install a Tdi.

Series 1 LWB were 107” for two years and were changed to 109” in 1956 to accommodate the new 2l diesel. There are plenty of 109” series Is with TDIs.

Changing the engine should not affect its historic status as it only counts as one point .
 
Series 1 LWB were 107” for two years and were changed to 109” in 1956 to accommodate the new 2l diesel. There are plenty of 109” series Is with TDIs.

Changing the engine should not affect its historic status as it only counts as one point .
Thanks. Was thinking of tagging you, but thought you would pop up sooner or later.
 
With regard to the original question , there have been numerous different engines put into Series Ones over the years most of which would probably not be very viable these days . First decision to be made is , do you want to keep it a diesel or are you open to change to a petrol ? How long do you think you will keep the vehicle ? Are you concerned about any future restrictions that might be put onto owners of diesel vehicles ? If so then petrol might be the way to go .

With regard to possible diesel options other than keeping what you have got , here are a few that I am aware of that have been done, 200DI( turbo removed)or TDI, 300TDI, 2.25 or 2.5 NA , Perkins , Peugeot or Daihatsu . There are probably loads more that I don’t know about . I considered quite seriously converting my 107” to a 200TDI for some time but decided not to in the end and had a 2.25 petrol installed instead ( more on that later) . The biggest drawback to diesels , especially the 200 And 300 TDIs , is the amount of noise they make when driving . You would need some serious sound deadening and ear defenders if you wanted to drive all the way to Scotland with one of those engines installed . There are people who do it , namely the boys in Team Faff (watch their YouTube videos very entertaining) and Dale Radford , but they are young and slightly deranged so probably shouldn’t be used as good examples . The plus side of diesels , of course, are their perceived fuel economy .

If you go the petrol route there are also a number of options , mostly of Rover origin . I wouldn’t bother with the 2l petrol as there would be minimal advantage in performance . You would need very deep pockets if you were to install a V8 or Ford V6 (very 1980s) and want to drive it to Scotland . I believe someone has installed a Rover K Series (2ltr?) engine but am unable to give any more information on that .

If it were mine I would go for either a 2.25 0r 2.5 l petrol breathed on engine with an Automotive Components remanufacturing(ACR) kit . I have such an engine in my 107” and it certainly makes it more useable and able to keep up with modern traffic . I have even over taken a Range Rover with it ! These are fairly common conversions with minimal amount of work required for the conversion . The main issue , if you are retaining the Series One gearbox , is getting the right bell housing . Don’t ask me which one is required as I am not that clued up . I have a reconditioned 2a gearbox in mine so there wasn’t an issue there .

Original 2l Diesel engines are pretty rare now , and whilst not being particularly desirable to most Series One owners you shouldn’t have too much trouble getting rid of it , should you chose to . The money you could get for it would help towards the conversion . However, if you have the space I would be inclined to keep it .

As for where to get the work done , I would suggest finding a specialist Land Rover Garage as undertaking such work would be second nature to them . I have it in mind that there are a few in your area but I would be prepared to travel to find someone you can trust . Check out the Land Rover magazines (in particular Classic Land Rover) for ideas .

If you haven’t already done so , you could try looking here https://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php . There is a vast amount of knowledge there about Series Ones, but be prepared to be frowned on for wanting to change the engine by some purists . Just ignore them as you need a useable motor not a museum piece .

Hope this has helped . I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert but I have picked up one or two things over the last 30 plus years of Series One ownership . Of course , I haven’t learnt the most important lesson . Don’t own one !

I need a lie down for a rest now !

Good luck .
 
I applaud your intention to do a 12 hour round trip is an S1 diesel!
I'm not sure I'd want to do much more than 50mph in a series 1 though, I'd question if you have the right car for the job? 'keeping it original' aside, how fast do you want to go!? 60? 70? I think you'd want to replace more than just the engine to do that, comfort will be an issue, as will braking, handling and durability
Just my opinion
I agree.....get something more suitable for long drives....if you must....I would look for an old Disco 200 and fit it minus the turbo....thats whats in my S3.
 

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