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Oliverryan96

Member
Hello Landy Zone,

A new defender owner here with little to no mechanical experience (soon to change for better or worse I imagine....). I've recently bought a 1996 300 TDI which is suffering from some electrical/starting issues so I'm looking for some assistance!

Hoping for some help with the issue I'm facing.

Backstory:

Last week the defender wouldn't start - when ignition was turned it would crank but wouldn't start and the lights and power were working fine, I am very new to mechanics so I resorted to utilising my AA breakdown cover - the man who attended done a number of checks re. the starter motor, battery health/charge, solenoid & others. He was getting rather stumped at what was causing the issue as all checks appeared fine, so I contacted the previous owner to double check there were no hidden immobilisers - they advised they had a similar issue that was linked to a broken/faulty relay. We then swapped the full beam relay into the starter relay and that worked - happy days!

This worked fine for a few days, then when I went to start the Landy a week later and it had the same issue - so I went and bought two new brand new relays from halfords to resolve the issue and replace the existing ones, this again worked for a couple of days. I've now just went to start landy this afternoon and I'm coming into the same issue again now with both of the new relays.

Can anyone assist in what could be causing this issue and a remedy? Its greatly appreciated!!
 
Have you checked its getting fuel when you crank it?
If its the same as a 200tdi there will be a fuel shut off valve on the back of the injection pump with one wire going to it.
 
When you say it won't start do you mean it doesnt turn over the engine or that it does turn the engine over, but doesn't fire up ?
 
miktdish said:
When you say it won't start do you mean it doesnt turn over the engine or that it does turn the engine over, but doesn't fire up ?
Click to expand...
So the engine cranks but doesn’t fire up.

Thinking it may be something electrical due to the new relays solving the issue twice but then also breaking again
 
Have someone sit in the car, and turn the key - not to cranking, but just before.

Whilst they do this, put your ear close to the injection pump. Do you hear a click from the back of the injection pump as they turn the key?

If the engine cranks, it's a fuel or air issue (or lack of compression).

My bet is the stop solenoid on the injection pump not opening properly (ie no fuel).
 
They can also do a real frustrating thing where they do open, but then, if there's other stuff going on, they can close again when it's cranking.... And then open again when you stop cranking.
 
Oliverryan96 said:
Thanks I’ll check for this!
Click to expand...
It needs to be live to let fuel through.
For testing purposes you can get a length of wire from the battery live terminal, or other live, and connect to the shut off valve. Then try starting it, if it starts you have a wire problem for the shut off valve.
You will need to pull the wire off to stop the engine.
 
Oliverryan96 said:
Hello Landy Zone,

A new defender owner here with little to no mechanical experience (soon to change for better or worse I imagine....). I've recently bought a 1996 300 TDI which is suffering from some electrical/starting issues so I'm looking for some assistance!

Hoping for some help with the issue I'm facing.

Backstory:

Last week the defender wouldn't start - when ignition was turned it would crank but wouldn't start and the lights and power were working fine, I am very new to mechanics so I resorted to utilising my AA breakdown cover - the man who attended done a number of checks re. the starter motor, battery health/charge, solenoid & others. He was getting rather stumped at what was causing the issue as all checks appeared fine, so I contacted the previous owner to double check there were no hidden immobilisers - they advised they had a similar issue that was linked to a broken/faulty relay. We then swapped the full beam relay into the starter relay and that worked - happy days!

This worked fine for a few days, then when I went to start the Landy a week later and it had the same issue - so I went and bought two new brand new relays from halfords to resolve the issue and replace the existing ones, this again worked for a couple of days. I've now just went to start landy this afternoon and I'm coming into the same issue again now with both of the new relays.

Can anyone assist in what could be causing this issue and a remedy? Its greatly appreciated!!
Click to expand...
By way of update - I have gotten a new relay to test if that would allow the Landy to start - with a new relay it has started perfectly fine first time no issues whatsoever.

@julianf is there a chance this would be linked to fuel/air issue you suggested or would it of been unlikely to start at all if this was the case?

Wondering if something is causing the relay to blow at all?
 
Oliverryan96 said:
@julianf is there a chance this would be linked to fuel/air issue you suggested or would it of been unlikely to start at all if this was the case?
Click to expand...

A non EDC 300tdi needs electricity to a grand total of "2" things to start -

The starter motor (which you have confirmed is running) and

The fuel solenoid on the injection pump.

Yours may be an EDC - I don't know. I've made the assumption that it's not, possibly incorrectly.

If it isn't an EDC and there's an electrical issue stopping it starting, and yet the starter motor is turning, it's the other one of the "2" possible things -

A faulty supply to, or a faulty, fuel solenoid.
 
Oliverryan96 said:
By way of update - I have gotten a new relay to test if that would allow the Landy to start - with a new relay it has started perfectly fine first time no issues whatsoever.

@julianf is there a chance this would be linked to fuel/air issue you suggested or would it of been unlikely to start at all if this was the case?

Wondering if something is causing the relay to blow at all?
Click to expand...
When it stops working again, check for a live on the fuel
shut off solenoid.
Carry a spare bit of wire to bypass it as I suggested. If it's working at the moment it sound like the solenoid itself might be ok.
 
Last edited:
Oliverryan96 said:
By way of update - I have gotten a new relay to test if that would allow the Landy to start - with a new relay it has started perfectly fine first time no issues whatsoever.

@julianf is there a chance this would be linked to fuel/air issue you suggested or would it of been unlikely to start at all if this was the case?

Wondering if something is causing the relay to blow at all?
Click to expand...
I wonder if the relay is for the starter solenoid? on the older models it was directly fed from the ignition switch.

If that is the case there are a few different amp versions of relays, so maybe your fix is as simple as the correctly rated version?
 
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It might be worth trying two things. Squirt contact cleaner into the relay socket and put the relay in and out a few times to clean the sockets.. Second. If the relay socket connects to the loom with spade terminals, give them a clean in the same way.

I'm working on the assumption that the problem isn't the relay, but the action of changing it is disturbing the fault. It could also be a broken wire, but try cleaning first.

ps. The current that actually works the relay is tiny, and corrosion on a pin is more than enough to thwart it.
 
thanks for the messages guys - appreciating all the assistance!

So by way of another update, unsurprisingly the issue has returned, I had taken out the new starter relay that worked yesterday overnight - when I’ve plugged it back in this morning the same issue has returned. I had taken out the new relay about 3 times last night to check if it worked after being removed with the Landy starting perfectly each time.

Hoping it is as simple as you suggest @lynall and that I’ve bought the wrong relays each time so they keep blowing and that I’ve been the issue here!! I’ve added photos - the yellow relay is the one that was originally in the landy when I bought it, the 3 black ones are the new ones I’ve bought which have all initially worked but then packed in.

@Anaconda - Excuse my lack of understanding and pitiful mechanical knowledge, do you think it’s worth checking the solenoid even through it started with a new relay? And what I’m basically checking, is to see if it starts with a direct connection to the fuel solenoid? I assume if it does the issue lies in the electrical wiring to this point? Next question is does a simple jump lead work and is the wire/lead to be ran directly from the battery to the solenoid?

@boguing ill check and clean these points as advised after work today - thanks!
 

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Did you just say -
Oliverryan96 said:
I had taken out the new relay about 3 times last night to check if it worked after being removed with the Landy starting perfectly each time.
Click to expand...


Am I reading this wrong? You say it starts with the relay removed?

Surely that tells you something?



Basically, stop messing about with the relay and run a wire direct to the stop solenoid (also referred to as the fuel solenoid).

I know you're convinced it's the relay. But if it starts (when it starts) with the relay removed, you probably need to move on from your target.
 
julianf said:
Did you just say -



Am I reading this wrong? You say it starts with the relay removed?

Surely that tells you something?



Basically, stop messing about with the relay and run a wire direct to the stop solenoid (also referred to as the fuel solenoid).

I know you're convinced it's the relay. But if it starts (when it starts) with the relay removed, you probably need to move on from your target.
Click to expand...
No, apologies if what I said didn’t make sense.

I plugged the new relay in, started the Land Rover, turned it off, then removed the relay and repeated this, I wanted to check if it was blown again.

Thanks!
 
Have a look at the attached screen grab -

Screenshot_20241119-095930.png



You're looking at the middle section (it's just a grab from my phone and I can't be bothered to crop it)

There's the "ECU engine immobilizer" section on the right hand side. This was probably removed years ago as they were rubbish and would stop no theft ever.

So you'll either have a wire direct from position 3 on the ignition switch to the stop solenoid (if the ECU has been removed) or the only relay in the area is the one that you say is working well enough to engage the starter motor.


(Edit - I don't know if there is feedback from the alarm ECU to the immobilizer ECU - but either way a wire to the stop solenoid would take all this out of the picture)

If the ECU thing is still present it will be that rather than the relay that you have confirmed is working...



People keep saying to run a wire direct to the stop solenoid. It's not just me saying this. There's a reason why they are saying this. It's because they are familiar with this vehicle and that is the best advice.

If that seems like it's too much effort for you, so be it, but that will still be the best advice. It's your call if you take it or not.
 
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Oliverryan96
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