while we are on the topic of complicating things, what about the bounce effects of the rubber end on the plunger, and the natural oscillations of the spring when it reaches the maximum position as the plunger closes ? :D

Pete
The armature will certainly bounce at both ends of travel, that is why the pick pulse is so long although air pressure must have some damping effect, on the close the action will also be cushioned to some extent by 60psi of air pressure.
 
The armature will certainly bounce at both ends of travel, that is why the pick pulse is so long although air pressure must have some damping effect, on the close the action will also be cushioned to some extent by 60psi of air pressure.

The chamber will be full of air at up to 150 or so psi. The only place there is 60 or so psi depending on height setting is beyond the valve seat. :)
 
You forget that the armature will remain in the energised state until a critical point is reached in the decay, at which point the magnetic field has insufficient influence to hold the armature against the spring pressure, even if you leave a residual voltage into the coil, the slowing effect is marginal, that's why modulation techniques are used to close solenoid valves slowly. Don't forget also, the movement of the armature will generate a reverse polarity voltage in the coil which is why supression is needed, unsupressed the back EMF can reach many hundreds of volts as in an ignition coil.
I agree on the first part - the effect maybe marginal, even to the point where it's negligible, but still there nonetheless. But on your second point (highlighted): The reverse voltage spike, typical of electro magnets and inductors and the reason why these devices very often are suppressed by an R/C network or a reverse diode, is primarily caused by the collapse of the energised field, not by the movement of an armature within the coil. EMF still occurs in inductors with no moving parts. I agree that the movement of the armature will generate some sort of voltage in the coil, but the high-voltage spike which occurs just as power to the coil is cut, is the result of a collapsing magnetic field.

Cheers,
Henrik
 
I agree on the first part - the effect maybe marginal, even to the point where it's negligible, but still there nonetheless. But on your second point (highlighted): The reverse voltage spike, typical of electro magnets and inductors and the reason why these devices very often are suppressed by an R/C network or a reverse diode, is primarily caused by the collapse of the energised field, not by the movement of an armature within the coil. EMF still occurs in inductors with no moving parts. I agree that the movement of the armature will generate some sort of voltage in the coil, but the high-voltage spike which occurs just as power to the coil is cut, is the result of a collapsing magnetic field.

Cheers,
Henrik
Correct, but the point was the effect on the armature.
 
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So, for the avoidance of doubt, I have done some bench testing, the first test was to measure the spring pressure exerted on the armature.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The pressure to fully retract the armature is 500gms (half a kilo!)[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A picture of the valve seat showing the high level of indentation.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Next, I connected the coil to a Lab power supply to measure the level at which the armature dropped, I didn't bother with the pull figures as seemingly these are not in dispute.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The armature drops instantly at 1.84 volts and 370ma, no measurable delay.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Drop occurs in the same way whether the power is removed quickly or ramped down slowly, if there are differences, I cannot measure them.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So, if we now come to the stylised wave forms in the LR document, you can see if you look at the top trace that the voltage across the coil is removed in microseconds, in terms of mechanical responses, that's instant.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Now look at the lower current trace, current drops to less than 30ma in around 10 milli seconds.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Given that the armature releases at 370ma, it is obvious that the armature will effectively drop instantly when voltage is removed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]All tests were done with no air in the system as the possible effects of air pressure on the speed of armature drop was not what I was interested in.[/FONT]
 

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Could you not try in a pressurised environment and put this to bed once and for all?
 
Could you not try in a pressurised environment and put this to bed once and for all?
The point in question was soft closing due to electronic effects, doing it pressurised would have merely confused the issue, I proved what I already new, namely that there is no armature release delay or slowing when the power is removed.
I would guess that under pressure there may be some closing speed reduction as you would expect from any piston pushing against pressure, it's of no relevance as it will be in the order of milliseconds, in mechanical terms nothing at all.
 
The point in question was soft closing due to electronic effects, doing it pressurised would have merely confused the issue, I proved what I already new, namely that there is no armature release delay or slowing when the power is removed.
I would guess that under pressure there may be some closing speed reduction as you would expect from any piston pushing against pressure, it's of no relevance as it will be in the order of milliseconds, in mechanical terms nothing at all.

Not if the pressure is all around the piston there isn't. :);)
 

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