T

Tim Hobbs

Guest
Got to pondering on the drive home tonight.. why do manufacturers fit
drum brakes? The Nissan has them, and in the 400 miles covered so far
the brakes are fine, albeit I haven't tried them repeatedly with a ton
in the back yet.

I can't see why drums would be cheaper to make or maintain and they
seem to offer several disadvantages. Even if they were a bit cheaper,
it seems odd to fit drums to a car with leather and sat nav...

So, in what respects are they favourable against discs?

--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"
 
Tim Hobbs wrote:

> Got to pondering on the drive home tonight.. why do manufacturers fit
> drum brakes? The Nissan has them, and in the 400 miles covered so far
> the brakes are fine, albeit I haven't tried them repeatedly with a ton
> in the back yet.
>
> I can't see why drums would be cheaper to make or maintain and they
> seem to offer several disadvantages. Even if they were a bit cheaper,
> it seems odd to fit drums to a car with leather and sat nav...
>
> So, in what respects are they favourable against discs?
>

In many cases it is simply a matter of they are cheaper because the design
and tooling was paid for long ago, and it is a point of distinction for a
cheaper versus more expensive model. And there is rarely much real
advantage to rear discs. The discs may actually be more expensive to make,
as the caliper is probably more expensive to make than the equivalent in
drum brakes (cylinders plus pressed backing plate), and there is more
machining on a disc than a drum.
But for many cars the reason is simply that it is easier to make a handbrake
work on drums rather than discs. Although interestingly the first mass
market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but the
handbrake worked on the front discs.
JD
 

> Although interestingly the first mass
> market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but the
> handbrake worked on the front discs.
>
And you wouldn't expect Citroen to do anything strange after all!


 
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:10:51 +0100, "SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote:

>
>> Although interestingly the first mass
>> market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but the
>> handbrake worked on the front discs.
>>
>And you wouldn't expect Citroen to do anything strange after all!
>
It always makes me wonder when i see a new car with drums on.

Saabs have had disc brakes all round since 1969.
The handbrake also worked using the front disc calipers for the
majority of that time (though for a while it operated a drum type
handbrake inside the hub of the disc!)

If its been possible to do it since then, how do they still justify
drums?
 
In message <anb432d2e2spp46k0hgpekm9i658gehm0g@4ax.com>
Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:10:51 +0100, "SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Although interestingly the first mass
> >> market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but the
> >> handbrake worked on the front discs.
> >>
> >And you wouldn't expect Citroen to do anything strange after all!
> >
> It always makes me wonder when i see a new car with drums on.
>
> Saabs have had disc brakes all round since 1969.
> The handbrake also worked using the front disc calipers for the
> majority of that time (though for a while it operated a drum type
> handbrake inside the hub of the disc!)
>
> If its been possible to do it since then, how do they still justify
> drums?

It could be that sometimes drums are all that is required. By that
I mean that the back axle does not want to be over-braked or it
will/can skid under heavy braking. Since something like 70% of
the brake force comes from the front then the rears may be
over-braked with discs, meaning a compensator valve is needed
(as per Discovery I) which adds the cost.

Just my 2p's worth.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
beamendsltd wrote:

> In message <anb432d2e2spp46k0hgpekm9i658gehm0g@4ax.com>
> Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:10:51 +0100, "SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> Although interestingly the first mass
>> >> market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but
>> >> the handbrake worked on the front discs.
>> >>
>> >And you wouldn't expect Citroen to do anything strange after all!
>> >
>> It always makes me wonder when i see a new car with drums on.
>>
>> Saabs have had disc brakes all round since 1969.
>> The handbrake also worked using the front disc calipers for the
>> majority of that time (though for a while it operated a drum type
>> handbrake inside the hub of the disc!)
>>
>> If its been possible to do it since then, how do they still justify
>> drums?
>
> It could be that sometimes drums are all that is required. By that
> I mean that the back axle does not want to be over-braked or it
> will/can skid under heavy braking. Since something like 70% of
> the brake force comes from the front then the rears may be
> over-braked with discs, meaning a compensator valve is needed
> (as per Discovery I) which adds the cost.
>
> Just my 2p's worth.
>
> Richard

I think you are right, but since it is easy to build discs with less braking
effect (e.g. smaller diameter cylinders) the drums must be cheaper to make,
as I suggested above.
 
Tom Woods wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:10:51 +0100, "SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Although interestingly the first mass
>>> market car fitted with discs (Citroen DS) had drums at the rear but the
>>> handbrake worked on the front discs.
>>>
>>And you wouldn't expect Citroen to do anything strange after all!
>>
> It always makes me wonder when i see a new car with drums on.
>
> Saabs have had disc brakes all round since 1969.
> The handbrake also worked using the front disc calipers for the
> majority of that time (though for a while it operated a drum type
> handbrake inside the hub of the disc!)
>
> If its been possible to do it since then, how do they still justify
> drums?

As I said, Citroen had the handbrake working on the front discs since 1955
(initially with a separate caliper, but later operating the same caliper) -
but they still used drums at the back - with the shoes only half lined,
which suggests how little braking effort was needed there!
JD
 
"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:f05d36124e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> It could be that sometimes drums are all that is required. By that
> I mean that the back axle does not want to be over-braked or it
> will/can skid under heavy braking. Since something like 70% of
> the brake force comes from the front then the rears may be
> over-braked with discs, meaning a compensator valve is needed
> (as per Discovery I) which adds the cost.
>
> Just my 2p's worth.
>
> Richard

I'd go with that, especially on commercials such as Vans, Pickups and flat
beds. I've had a few twitchy moments in empty vans and pickups. They would
have been very very twitchy with disks on the back.

Lee


 
>
> I'd go with that, especially on commercials such as Vans, Pickups and flat
> beds. I've had a few twitchy moments in empty vans and pickups. They would
> have been very very twitchy with disks on the back.
>
Doesn't matter what type of brakes they are, if they are set up incorrectly
they will not work properly.
I have a Daily with discs all round, and it is never a problem.


 
>> Saabs have had disc brakes all round since 1969.
>> The handbrake also worked using the front disc calipers for the
>> majority of that time (though for a while it operated a drum type
>> handbrake inside the hub of the disc!)
>>
>> If its been possible to do it since then, how do they still justify
>> drums?
>
> It could be that sometimes drums are all that is required. By that
> I mean that the back axle does not want to be over-braked or it
> will/can skid under heavy braking. Since something like 70% of
> the brake force comes from the front then the rears may be
> over-braked with discs, meaning a compensator valve is needed
> (as per Discovery I) which adds the cost.
>
Saabs were known for problems with the read discs due to under use, i.e.
seized callipers, rusty discs.


 

"SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote in message
news:LZudnah1j8mTOq_ZRVny2g@bt.com...
> >
>> I'd go with that, especially on commercials such as Vans, Pickups and
>> flat beds. I've had a few twitchy moments in empty vans and pickups. They
>> would have been very very twitchy with disks on the back.
>>
> Doesn't matter what type of brakes they are, if they are set up
> incorrectly they will not work properly.
> I have a Daily with discs all round, and it is never a problem.

The vans' I've driven are probably driven with a bit more "purpose" ;-) .
I'm hard pushed to actually think of any of the "firms" commercials which
have disk brakes... yet to scrabble under a Sprinter as I've been driving a
desk unless deployed on a mission since we supposedly "progressed" from the
V8 Convoy's. Now how the hell is a Diesel supposed to compare with a V8 when
cruising the town centre on a Friday night.

Lee



 
> The vans' I've driven are probably driven with a bit more "purpose" ;-) .
> I'm hard pushed to actually think of any of the "firms" commercials which
> have disk brakes... yet to scrabble under a Sprinter as I've been driving
> a desk unless deployed on a mission since we supposedly "progressed" from
> the V8 Convoy's. Now how the hell is a Diesel supposed to compare with a
> V8 when cruising the town centre on a Friday night.
>
V8 Convoy, 144HP at 5,000RPM
316 Sprinter, 156HP at 3,800RPM

The figures say it all!


 

"SimonJ" <me@mine.net> wrote in message
news:B8OdnT3mivL4W6_ZRVnyjg@bt.com...
> V8 Convoy, 144HP at 5,000RPM
> 316 Sprinter, 156HP at 3,800RPM
>
> The figures say it all!

Numbers numbers numbers.... give me burbble any day. I know which chorus
strikes fear in to the hearts of a maurauding crowd and It's not the
alternative to veggie oil ;-)

Lee


 
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:09:21 +0100, SimonJ <me@mine.net> wrote:


>>
> Saabs were known for problems with the read discs due to under use, i.e.
> seized callipers, rusty discs.


I had a 1989 Volvo 240 estate until recently, which I drove every day.
When I took it for it's last MoT, the garage assumed I must have left it
standing all year, both rear discs were so rusty, and the calipers
completely seized. The (front) brakes had been more than adequate for
several months.

--
Olly R
Now with a 1997 110 Tdi Station Wagon

 

"Olly R" <oliver.rundell@webtribe.net> wrote in message
news:eek:p.s7h6owlknzf0cm@oliver-861yfc71...
> On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:09:21 +0100, SimonJ <me@mine.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> Saabs were known for problems with the read discs due to under use, i.e.
>> seized callipers, rusty discs.
>
>
> I had a 1989 Volvo 240 estate until recently, which I drove every day.
> When I took it for it's last MoT, the garage assumed I must have left it
> standing all year, both rear discs were so rusty, and the calipers
> completely seized. The (front) brakes had been more than adequate for
> several months.
>
> --
> Olly R
> Now with a 1997 110 Tdi Station Wagon
>
I had a Nissan Primera Estate 2.0L twin cam with rear disc brakes and the
calipers siezed, same reason. If Nissan replace the same and pads etc it is
£450 per side. So Imo the guy who started this thread should be happy the
Nissan Navara doesn't have them. I certainly happy my TD4 doesn't.

Richard


 
My bicycle is fitted with drum brakes, now you would not want your landie
fitted with caliper brakes would you :)

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
news:i1c33290ecp3v2roh48nqgl4e408o866j7@4ax.com...
> Got to pondering on the drive home tonight.. why do manufacturers fit
> drum brakes? The Nissan has them, and in the 400 miles covered so far
> the brakes are fine, albeit I haven't tried them repeatedly with a ton
> in the back yet.
>
> I can't see why drums would be cheaper to make or maintain and they
> seem to offer several disadvantages. Even if they were a bit cheaper,
> it seems odd to fit drums to a car with leather and sat nav...
>
> So, in what respects are they favourable against discs?
>
> --
>
> Tim Hobbs
>
> '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
> '03 Volvo V70
> '06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"


 

"Tim Hobbs" <tim@spam.com> wrote in message
news:i1c33290ecp3v2roh48nqgl4e408o866j7@4ax.com...
> Got to pondering on the drive home tonight.. why do manufacturers fit
> drum brakes? The Nissan has them, and in the 400 miles covered so far
> the brakes are fine, albeit I haven't tried them repeatedly with a ton
> in the back yet.
>
> I can't see why drums would be cheaper to make or maintain and they
> seem to offer several disadvantages. Even if they were a bit cheaper,
> it seems odd to fit drums to a car with leather and sat nav...
>
> So, in what respects are they favourable against discs?
>
The reason why they have them on the Navarra is that they are made of two
cars. Nissan take the front end of Nissan pickup (modern TD engine, IFS,
disk brakes etc) and weld it to the back end of a Series II land rover
(part-time 4WD, rusty cart springs, mud-filled drum brakes etc) and you end
of with a jap pick-up!


 
On 2006-04-04, Larry <NDA@larry-arnold.cwm> wrote:

> My bicycle is fitted with drum brakes, now you would not want your
> landie fitted with caliper brakes would you :)

Mine is, Defender 110 300TDi, caliper brakes all round, working on the
discs!

I'm just glad it doesn't have Sturmey-Archer three-speed hubs and a
twist grip gear change, like my old Grifter...

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
I meant acting on the wheel rims.

worse still wooden blocks operated by a lever like the old farm carts.


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Ian Rawlings" <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrne37qsl.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> On 2006-04-04, Larry <NDA@larry-arnold.cwm> wrote:
>
>
> Mine is, Defender 110 300TDi, caliper brakes all round, working on the
> discs!
>
> I'm just glad it doesn't have Sturmey-Archer three-speed hubs and a
> twist grip gear change, like my old Grifter...
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!


 
On 2006-04-05, Larry <NDA@larry-arnold.cwm> wrote:

> I meant acting on the wheel rims.

Yes I had guessed that...

> worse still wooden blocks operated by a lever like the old farm carts.

How about rust holes in the floor, and a pair of hob-nailed boots?

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dag019
How to test a brake servo and master cylinder
Replies
1
Views
982
tottot
tottot
dag019
I have bought a station wagon
3 4 5
Replies
85
Views
7K
tottot
tottot
M
Warping discs............Again and again and again
2 3
Replies
49
Views
5K
pete12345
pete12345
Benny_Boy
110 New Rear hub compatability
Replies
6
Views
749
123-eddy09
123-eddy09
A
Freelander 1 So I looked at a freelander....
Replies
10
Views
1K
archman
A