blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
Lots of threads in the archives about using 2 stroke as an additive. Collective wisdom suggests 200-250:1
I've changed fuel filters whilst we been running TSO, and only thing in there was slightly green diesel. AFAIK, its essential that mineral TSO is used, NOT synthetic
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
Even though TSO is good stuff, and even seemed to help our shogun. It's certainly not going to do enough to save this engine. It's so sluggish. A friend who used to PDI 300tdi defenders drove it, he also agreed with me. Sounds like a bag of spanners too.
On the hunt for a good 300tdi engine then. Thanks for your replies
On the hunt for a good 300tdi engine then. Thanks for your replies
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
Guys, I'm starting to wonder about just rebuilding the engine that's in the land rover at the moment. I can manage without for a couple of months as there is another one in the family to use.
The reason for me doubting this approach is that the engine is already **** from the start, which doesn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Now I know a rebuild and fresh internals can help. But I'm not sure this would be as good as buying a good strong 300tdi engine from the start, and rebuilding that.
My concern about the engine in at the moment is, the fuel injection pump is weak, it shouldn't have to be tweaked to maintain pace wit a bog standaRd 300tdi. And also the relationship (forgive my very limited knowledge) the pump has to the engine and cam. I've never been able to advance the timing anymore than the 8.5mm pin through the FIP due to running out of adjustment.
To cut a long story short, I just want to start a fresh. Tried too many things on this engine with no luck.
So basically, can the engine in be rebuilt to a standard as good as any?
Or is a strong one a strong one, and a weak one a weak one.
Thanks all
The reason for me doubting this approach is that the engine is already **** from the start, which doesn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Now I know a rebuild and fresh internals can help. But I'm not sure this would be as good as buying a good strong 300tdi engine from the start, and rebuilding that.
My concern about the engine in at the moment is, the fuel injection pump is weak, it shouldn't have to be tweaked to maintain pace wit a bog standaRd 300tdi. And also the relationship (forgive my very limited knowledge) the pump has to the engine and cam. I've never been able to advance the timing anymore than the 8.5mm pin through the FIP due to running out of adjustment.
To cut a long story short, I just want to start a fresh. Tried too many things on this engine with no luck.
So basically, can the engine in be rebuilt to a standard as good as any?
Or is a strong one a strong one, and a weak one a weak one.
Thanks all
A bog standard 200/300 will lose pace on a long hill as they are underpowered no matter what people say, especially if you have the 1.2 tfer box or tall tyres.
1, it could all be down to your fip especially if its been run on veg oil in the past, have you checked the lift pump as when they fail they take the edge of the top end power?
If you cant advance the pump timing you will have to remove the timing chest cover and move the belt one notch around the fip pulley then retime making sure the adjustment bolts allow you to advance it when belt tensioned, I had to do the same to my 200 and it was my fault as I fitted the belt that was on there!
2, quick dirty check to see if you have a weak cylinder is whilst the engine is ticking over crack each injector pipe in turn and so long as the engine changes note/slow down roughly the same with each pipe you undo they are all contributing the same, if when you undo one pipe the note hardly changes or no change thats the duff one but it doesnt mean its an engine fault it could still come back to the fip.
3, if the above doesnt work then I would remove the cylinder head and assess from there, if bores acceptable still have the hone marks and theres no obvious step I wouldnt be going any further inside the engine.
1, it could all be down to your fip especially if its been run on veg oil in the past, have you checked the lift pump as when they fail they take the edge of the top end power?
If you cant advance the pump timing you will have to remove the timing chest cover and move the belt one notch around the fip pulley then retime making sure the adjustment bolts allow you to advance it when belt tensioned, I had to do the same to my 200 and it was my fault as I fitted the belt that was on there!
2, quick dirty check to see if you have a weak cylinder is whilst the engine is ticking over crack each injector pipe in turn and so long as the engine changes note/slow down roughly the same with each pipe you undo they are all contributing the same, if when you undo one pipe the note hardly changes or no change thats the duff one but it doesnt mean its an engine fault it could still come back to the fip.
3, if the above doesnt work then I would remove the cylinder head and assess from there, if bores acceptable still have the hone marks and theres no obvious step I wouldnt be going any further inside the engine.
flat
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like the engine has been extensively fiddled with to try and fix it without sorting the root cause. Lynalls advice is good and a good place to start to work out whether it's a deeper problem or not. Could simply be a badly fitted timing belt or the fip is knackered.
It would have been good once when it came out the factory.
If it was me and I had another car available I would strip it completely to component parts clean and inspect everything and replace anything out of tolerance/obviously worn with quality OEM parts (from turners etc). This would wipe the slate clean and will get the engine back to 'spec'.
It may need various new 'big' things like Pistons etc and you may need to have the block honed etc but you won't know any of that till you open it up and look.
Unless the block is cracked or it's been bored out to within an inch of its life or the bottom end has eaten itself it should rebuild
It's basically what I did with my 200tdi
It would have been good once when it came out the factory.
If it was me and I had another car available I would strip it completely to component parts clean and inspect everything and replace anything out of tolerance/obviously worn with quality OEM parts (from turners etc). This would wipe the slate clean and will get the engine back to 'spec'.
It may need various new 'big' things like Pistons etc and you may need to have the block honed etc but you won't know any of that till you open it up and look.
Unless the block is cracked or it's been bored out to within an inch of its life or the bottom end has eaten itself it should rebuild
It's basically what I did with my 200tdi
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
Thanks for the reply mate.
Answers to your questions :
1. I've took the front cover off, removed the cambelt and tried to re position 1 tooth round, and it simply wouldn't let me. I ran out of adjustment. So I removed FIP sprocket and tried to rotate or reposition with no luck either. With the crank locked, there is literally no way I can move it round another tooth. Basically with the FIP pin locked, it's as far advanced on the sprocket elongation as possible. I can retard it a load though. Hope this makes sense.
New lift pump fitted.
2. I've slackened off each injector, they all leave the same results when slackened. Also tried another set of injectors with no luck.
3. If the bores are good do you just replace the pistons and rings with standard size?
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
Thanks for the reply flat.
I've had the timing belt replaced by a local independent land rover specialist the first time. Then had to do it myself the second. Before, during and after all left the same results on the engine.
Appreciate all the advise chaps, very helpull thanks. Looking forward to my first engine rebuild to be honest
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
Thanks Marmaduke, that's very kind of you mate. I'm in Wolverhampton so not a million miles away.
Excuse my lack of technical knowledge. With the 3 bolts on the FIP sprocket, it allows for movement either way of the gear I believe due to elongation of the sprocket hole, which allows for advance or retard.
With the 9.5mm pin locked in the pump, Im on maximum advanced adjustment. But can retard it a hell load.
I was led to believe this is due to the positioning of the pump to the engine (angle maybe). But I don't know. I tried fitting the belt in so many different ways with no luck; just couldn't advance it anymore.
Just if anyones interested, they are almost meaningless to me. I've got the impression figures of the engine
Cyl 1:340
Cyl 2:390
Cyl 3: 363
Cyl 4: 363
Tried cylinder 1 with oil, maybe too much and it came to 470.
Sorry for my lack of knowledge. All self taught and learning from reading and you guys
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
I used exactly that too mate. Chris is great, very helpful. Also followed the workshop manual to the book.
I agree with this - and it should tell us something isn't right. like the key in the FIP pulley hub is damaged or missing or ??? I've lost count of the number of timing belts I have changed - and I think the system is a good one, works well, and I have rarely had problems with it that weren't my own fault!
If it sounds like a bag of spanners, then this could be timing too.
Its a shame you're so far away, as I almost want to see this with my own eyes!
your compression numbers don't look bad at all - assuming the units are PSI - but might have some problems in cylinder 1 if the oil sealed a hole.... how were they checked? through the glowplug hole ? Two threads here from other forums with good advice in, and confirmation that your numbers are pretty good:-
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/69649-Compression-figures-for-a-200tdi
This second one gives figures you don't want to see.....
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=36904
I can't remember if you said you'd checked all the usual suspects like boost pressure and the associated pipework - I know you've done the lift pump.
Agreed - its gonna be hard for it to be much else given those figs. I.E. if the main wearing parts if the engine are good enough to give compression figures like that, then the rest of it is likely fine too; thus fueling is the issue - I.E. FIP & timing.
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90
Active Member
I agree with this - and it should tell us something isn't right. like the key in the FIP pulley hub is damaged or missing or ??? I've lost count of the number of timing belts I have changed - and I think the system is a good one, works well, and I have rarely had problems with it that weren't my own fault!
If it sounds like a bag of spanners, then this could be timing too.
Its a shame you're so far away, as I almost want to see this with my own eyes!
your compression numbers don't look bad at all - assuming the units are PSI - but might have some problems in cylinder 1 if the oil sealed a hole.... how were they checked? through the glowplug hole ? Two threads here from other forums with good advice in, and confirmation that your numbers are pretty good:-
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/69649-Compression-figures-for-a-200tdi
This second one gives figures you don't want to see.....
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=36904
I can't remember if you said you'd checked all the usual suspects like boost pressure and the associated pipework - I know you've done the lift pump.
Ahh eckkk! I've always second guessed the FIP myself too. I just felt like I'd tried everything and sort of give up with it now and wanted to start a fresh.
I checked the compression through the glow plug hole yes. Replaced injector washers too.
What made me think it was a weak engine is the fact it spits oil out the dipstick, spits it onto the passenger wing infact. Not much though really.
When following the vehicle from behind, there is absolutely no blue smoke at all, not even from cold. And doesn't use a drop of oil between services. I get a huge plume of black smoke on start up though. It's not the best starter without glow plugs either really
Would it be worth trying my dad's FIP into mine do you think? Or is that a ball ache.
Thanks for your time with replies chaps.
If you think about the fip sprocket if you can retard it but not advance it, remove the drill bit and turn it one tooth then tension belt rotate engine slightly to refit pin loosen sprocket bolts then retime it as per the book, then make sure you can advance it to your hearts content before buildng it back up again.
I had a 200 that went okay but every now and then would drop onto three cylinders I stuck in some injectors and it was fine for a 100 miles or so then it would be on 3 again, filled filter with injector cleaner and again fine all the time it was running until the next day, every now and then it wouldnt turn off on the key, new stop solenoid fixed it again for a short time then it would do the same, in the end good used fip and its never been an issue since.
If you are spewing oil out of the dip stick tube you may have deeper issues and another lump may be the simplest and quickest solution, ive never had a tdi do that before.
I had a 200 that went okay but every now and then would drop onto three cylinders I stuck in some injectors and it was fine for a 100 miles or so then it would be on 3 again, filled filter with injector cleaner and again fine all the time it was running until the next day, every now and then it wouldnt turn off on the key, new stop solenoid fixed it again for a short time then it would do the same, in the end good used fip and its never been an issue since.
If you are spewing oil out of the dip stick tube you may have deeper issues and another lump may be the simplest and quickest solution, ive never had a tdi do that before.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Yes,unless you have two fuel pump holding tools for that engine.
If you have one pump holding tool, it is easy enough to remove the pump, and take it to an injection specialist, they will put it on their test rig.
