Barbados

Active Member
Just skimming though the torque specs for my 300tdi head bolts and saw the manual stating that the tappet slider retains bolts be replaced...is this totally necessary?

Mine are in perfect shape, threads perfect and no corrosion or deformity, wonder why they are one time use bolts.

I usually do everything by the book but this has me wondering and besides that, don't know if it's available locally.

Cheers.

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They are probably single use because they come with a locking compound on them. Don't see any reason why they couldn't be reused as long as you clean the treads of all the old stuff and use a good quality high strength locking fluid, there is no real stress on the bolt it just retains the tappet block. . Don't cheap out and use cheap stuff, if a bolt were to unwind then the block would slip down the bore and could end up doing a fair bit of damage.
 
I've never changed them, just check the pointy end is in good nick and follow Kwackers advice.
 
Hi Mates, had already decided that I will reuse them since this will be only the second time they will be used. The engine was never touched before so the retaining bolts are in good condition.

Kwakerman, I am quite the opposite, I usually do an over kill on everything I do in all aspects, never cheap out. I tell my customers the same, we either do it properly or we don't do it.

I was going to use red Loctite 222 thread locker. This is pretty much the best I have used so far for permanent locking and the blue Loctite for removable bolts or nuts.
What you think about this?
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Hi Mates, had already decided that I will reuse them since this will be only the second time they will be used. The engine was never touched before so the retaining bolts are in good condition.

Kwakerman, I am quite the opposite, I usually do an over kill on everything I do in all aspects, never cheap out. I tell my customers the same, we either do it properly or we don't do it.

I was going to use red Loctite 222 thread locker. This is pretty much the best I have used so far for permanent locking and the blue Loctite for removable bolts or nuts.
What you think about this?
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222 will be fine, nice clean oil free threads om the bolt and retainer and correct torque and it will last another 20 years. You might want to re-read my last post, you are not the opposite you are the same! I said 'don't cheap out and use cheap stuff' :D I'm an aircraft engineer and never cut corners (even on the landy) it is just been ingrained over the last 37 years. Certainly wouldn't want to fly in an aircraft maintained to the same standards as some landys I've seen :eek:.
 
Kwaker....when I said I was the opposite, I was referring to the opposite of cheaping out lol..not referring to the opposite of you.

Well I am an aircraft engineer too..well sort of, see pics LOL I build and fly giant scale aerobatic RC airplanes, cant cheap out there either, you can lose UDS 5000.00 in a hurry with these. Nice to know that you are into the aviation field, aviation is my passion too. I fly Cessnas and wanted to be a commercial pilot as a kid but got into electronics as a steeping stone and got hooked.

I also had a Euro performance shop and I club raced until 2013 before taking a Gvt diplomatic mission abroad. There is a pic of a 600HP BMW engine we built and turbo charged for one of my BMW classics.
My guys here are saying I have OCD about my 300TDI because I sent out the crank and cam to be polished at the machine shop though they were in perfect condition.
I like to do everything better than 100% with anything I do, work, play or otherwise, I am crazy when it comes to attention to detail.

Though I have been working on engines since I was a teen, I am not the know it all type and would ask questions about stuff I dont know about. You guys have experience in the Landy engines and I would definitely take your advice about something as simple as a bolt :)

Cheers and tanks always for your help and valuable knowledge.
 

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Kwaker....when I said I was the opposite, I was referring to the opposite of cheaping out lol..not referring to the opposite of you.

Well I am an aircraft engineer too..well sort of, see pics LOL I build and fly giant scale aerobatic RC airplanes, cant cheap out there either, you can lose UDS 5000.00 in a hurry with these. Nice to know that you are into the aviation field, aviation is my passion too. I fly Cessnas and wanted to be a commercial pilot as a kid but got into electronics as a steeping stone and got hooked.

I also had a Euro performance shop and I club raced until 2013 before taking a Gvt diplomatic mission abroad. There is a pic of a 600HP BMW engine we built and turbo charged for one of my BMW classics.
My guys here are saying I have OCD about my 300TDI because I sent out the crank and cam to be polished at the machine shop though they were in perfect condition.
I like to do everything better than 100% with anything I do, work, play or otherwise, I am crazy when it comes to attention to detail.

Though I have been working on engines since I was a teen, I am not the know it all type and would ask questions about stuff I dont know about. You guys have experience in the Landy engines and I would definitely take your advice about something as simple as a bolt :)

Cheers and tanks always for your help and valuable knowledge.

Some nice kit there, I've been into RC flying too, done fixed wing, got an old heli left at the moment but also did model power boats racing (FSR) before I got in to clay shooting, all good ways to dispose of surplus cash without too much difficulty:eek:. Luckily my 90 was fairly well looked after before I got it (now at 172K miles / 20 years) and still going strong on original engine / drivetrain so I've not had a need to pull anything major apart. I've also got a CNC lathe and Mill plus extensive collection of tools plus welder etc so not scared to take most things on when the need arises. All you need to do now is graft the 600HP motor in your landy to see how it goes while you finish the 300!:rolleyes:
 
I definately changed mine for the price why take the risk, if it says do it why not, they know what there doing, aircraft engineer or not you haven't taken their advice,
Why right the book hey?:mad::mad:;)
 
And for the book, I've built and replaced numerous engines, if a shortcut as to be taken it's not on parts but on time scales.
 
I definately changed mine for the price why take the risk, if it says do it why not, they know what there doing, aircraft engineer or not you haven't taken their advice,
Why right the book hey?:mad::mad:;)
The OPs question probably relates to his location and availability of LR spares in a reasonable timescale. Granted the bolt(s) concerned need to be locked which will be why LR pre-apply locking compound to the bolts. That guarantees that anyone rebuilding the engine in the future would not accidently forget to apply locking compound as LR specify to use new bolts and the new bolts come with it pre-applied (belt and braces). That said there is no real load on those bolts as they only hold the slider block in place and they aren't torque-to-yield bolts so they wont be overstressed in normal use. By the sound of it Barbados has the engineering background to understand any potential risks involved, personally I would probably do the same in his situation.
 
The OPs question probably relates to his location and availability of LR spares in a reasonable timescale. Granted the bolt(s) concerned need to be locked which will be why LR pre-apply locking compound to the bolts. That guarantees that anyone rebuilding the engine in the future would not accidently forget to apply locking compound as LR specify to use new bolts and the new bolts come with it pre-applied (belt and braces). That said there is no real load on those bolts as they only hold the slider block in place and they aren't torque-to-yield bolts so they wont be overstressed in normal use. By the sound of it Barbados has the engineering background to understand any potential risks involved, personally I would probably do the same in his situation.
 
Please don't misunderstand, what I'm saying is, the book written by the experts tell you to change the bolts, if it was recommended on one of your planes you would do it.
Also I suppose his background will give him the experience to know,but when he's being told to do something, then ask a question should he, confuses me,
The parts are readily available on the internet etc.
The point I'm trying to get over is if he hasn't don't it and things go wrong whose he going to blame the experienced engineer inside him or the fool who should have done what the book said.
No hard feelings but you both said you do everything by the book 100% plus more, well I'd say your contradicting yourselves here. Do it right or do it again.
 
Kwaker....when I said I was the opposite, I was referring to the opposite of cheaping out lol..not referring to the opposite of you.

Well I am an aircraft engineer too..well sort of, see pics LOL I build and fly giant scale aerobatic RC airplanes, cant cheap out there either, you can lose UDS 5000.00 in a hurry with these. Nice to know that you are into the aviation field, aviation is my passion too. I fly Cessnas and wanted to be a commercial pilot as a kid but got into electronics as a steeping stone and got hooked.

Those are great looking planes! :cool: Have you ever posted any pics of those in the Aircraft fred?

You have probably done it now anyway, but I would re-use those bolts without concern as well.:)
 
;) Well let's hope it doesn't come back and bite him on the ass,
What I'm saying is I wouldn't and haven't but I appreciate 99% of others may re use, that's your choice but why? When recommended to do so..
 
;) Well let's hope it doesn't come back and bite him on the ass,
What I'm saying is I wouldn't and haven't but I appreciate 99% of others may re use, that's your choice but why? When recommended to do so..

Because a landrover manual is written for rover mechanics working in a workshop.
As Kwakerman says, they need to play it double safe, to avoid lawsuits etc.
Also, they are on job times and bonus, much quicker to get the pre sealed bolts out of a pack and screw them in. They will have them.

For me, working at the end of a long lane, parts are a minimum one hour away, maybe days if the local place doesnt have them.

For someone living in the West Indies, might be a serious mission to get them.
 
Also I suppose his background will give him the experience to know,but when he's being told to do something, then ask a question should he, confuses me,

We were not talking about airplanes, we are talking a defender...apples and oranges.

I am sure Kwakerman will follow the books with regards to his aviation related guidelines. Again a defender is not an airplane, using the same retaining bolt again and doing all the investigative use and its purpose has covered the calculated risks, no falling out of the sky and bailing out with an eject button with the landy. :)

I measured the conical shape of the bolt where they should wear if at all, all were the same and they all matched the exact hole size they have to fit into the guide, so absolutely nothing was wrong with them.
Parts also costs a fortune here, eg., a clutch kit here for the 110 300tdi costs US$ 600 for the clutch kit alone. So far, for the cost I was given in the UK for an HD 130 clutch kit made by Valeo, 2 flywheel dowels, HD clutch fork kit complete, guide and some other parts were less than US$ 280.00. That order will run me about US$ 1,100 here.
The suppliers do not rip ypou off per se, but the taxes on parts is 80% on the cost of the parts AND the shipping combined. To give you an idea, a flywheel dowel/pin which is like 50 pence will cost me US$ 12 here.

I am not sure how long you have been in the industry, but I speak for myself...in countless repairs some mechanically and electronic replacement part
"recommendations" are clearly deemed to promote sales for the manufacturers. Recommendations have put in inverted commas because in the hundreds and
hundreds of rebuild manuals I have read, manufacturers have used the word "recommended."
I was the owner of a a Euro Performance shop in Canada up to 2013 where we built many race and turbocharged engines. Some of the "recommendations" have been bypassed after consulting with senior BMW techs at the dealerships who are friends of mine, none have failed. Many of them have been techs for their entire career span, some even retired, all of whom has admitted that many of the "recommendations" are for sales generation.

I have friends who are techs at many GM dealerships, they told me they have a "monthly $ quota" to meet buy encouraging customers to change parts when it can last another 5 years, so as the old saying goes.....dont always believe what you read.

Because of my background, I was scratching my head about why this little bolt which has no stress, wear or torque related job must be changed...hence the reason I started this thread. JFYI, I called up the LR spares suppliers locally and they both told me they have only sold about 8 of these bolts collectively within the last 10 years.

Many guys build and race defenders and discoveries for rallying locally. There are many 300TDIs in use as daily drivers and for commercial use too, so its not like there is only a handful of landys here, which is responsible for the practically non existent guide retainer bolts sales locally. I spoke to two guys who rebuild Defender engines and they told me they only replace these bolts if the heads got rounded or if they misplaced any, none ever failed...they do not even strip due to their low torque specs.

I hope this explains why you should not be confused, pertaining to my question here regarding changing of the bolts after reading the overhaul manual. We see no reason, no mechanical nor adverse engineering points negating them to be changed.

I do appreciate your input and reply Geezer, thanks and take care.

Cheers.
 
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Relax man relax man you asked for an opinion I gave it, I still think your wrong but that's me,
And honestly what a lot of crap about they only do it because they have to, they recommend it,
I personally based on this wouldn't let you within a mile of my landy engines.
Barbados or Barnsley,
Cheers
 
Relax man relax man you asked for an opinion I gave it, I still think your wrong but that's me,
And honestly what a lot of crap about they only do it because they have to, they recommend it,
I personally based on this wouldn't let you within a mile of my landy engines.
Barbados or Barnsley,
Cheers
Anndddddddddddddd......I was reply to your opinion and so were the rest of contributors. I am not at winded up at all, I dont get wound up easily Greezer and no place better to relax than Barbados so I am chill :) once you not buying Landy parts. OK we are wrong and thats OK and if thats crap..thats OK too. Make sure when I visit Yorkshire....you camouflage your landys and have flame throwers attached :D I am sure we wont have to touch your Landy, everything will be brand new on it...with you following all the LR recommendations. :) Teasing you man..lol

I am not upset at all Greezer, why should I be..don't know how you misread that. I joke a lot in life and serious about my work, you might dispute the latter ;)

Take care and follow the books, be nice now..JKing :)

Cheers Greezer and take care mate.
 
Those are great looking planes! :cool: Have you ever posted any pics of those in the Aircraft fred?

You have probably done it now anyway, but I would re-use those bolts without concern as well.:)
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Hi Turboman...just saw your post...sorry. Thanks for the compliments, yes they are great looking planes and they fly the same as they look. I have not posted in the aircraft thread, did not even know there was one :rolleyes: I will though.

I am working on one thats 33% the size of the real one now. The 3 door 110 landy I have now was for that airplane since it cant fit into my X5. I am planing with one of the clubs here to invite the guys from your side of the pond to vist and fly with us during our annual flying event. We do have a few UK visitors, in fact I would say 80% of the tourists who visit here are from the UK and some are avid rc and full scale pilots.

Are you into aviation too? I think most guys like or are into it. :)

As for the bolts, yes I took Quakermans advice and installed them. I used locktite and torqued them. I then used the torque wrench in reverse to see if they would break free and they did not..even at 18Nm they were not backing off.
 
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