Hi all, I've a classic that has been fitted with a 300tdi and while I do I do love it I've got to admit it is a bit tatty and needs money spending on bodywork, tailgate, headlining etc. So instead of that I'm wondering how it would compare to a P38 diesel, chipped if possible.

For example, if the airbags hadn't been replaced with springs, is the ride that much better and what about if the P38 had been converted to springs?

Mine is a manual and the P38s I've seen have all been auto so are they much worse on fuel?

Finally, how would they compare for day to day use, power and so on?

Thanks in advance for any answers and comments as I really don't know what to do for the best! :scratching_chin:

I love my P38 Oil Burner....

It is slow, but I am comparing it to my previous V8's...but the big fella will leap into action if the pedal is prodded hard enough....

The M51 engine is more refined than the 300TDi, with a little more oommpphh and tad more torque....but it delivers it in a smoother fashion and not all in one chunk.

The auto is better suited to the Diesel as the power doesn't really come on tap until around 2200rpm, so in a mnual you have to slip the clutch quite a bit to get it moving esp. if you are towing a trailer/load.

A chipped diesel will give a bit more poke, but this is at the expense of both fuel and gearboxes, as the extra torque tends to chew them up over a period.

They can overheat if the cooling system is not maintained properly and this will knacker the heads even more so than the V8's, the water pumps (originally) were fitted with plastic vanes that break off into the water system and causes over heating issues...you can get better pumps with metal vanes.

They hate starting when warm, this is caused by stretch in the fuel injection pump timing chain at over 20k miles, there are two 'solutions' - pay to get the pump retimed (£££) or fit a 'Hot Start Fix' kit, which fools the ECU into thinking the engine is cold and thus increases fuel input during starting....but ensure it is the timed version, or else it will always be injecting too much fuel and that will hit economy.

If it struggles to start (hot or cold) with the tank level below 1/3rd full, this would indicate a weak in tank lift pump, also a sluggish engine will be an indication of duff ITP too....replacement is easy enough, either drop the tank and replace or cut a hole in the boot floor and replace....around £50 or so for a new ITP.

The leak off pipes connecting each injector can leak, and this causes air to be drawn in when the engine is off and can cause starting issues too, but the pipes are only a few quid and an hour to fit (dead simple) so not to worry on that one.

P38's hate weak batteries, so budget to fit a C31-1000cca (as recommended by many on here - around £100 or so) as this is the biggest that will physically fit in the space, and should provide plenty of juice.

The EAS can be a diva, but with propoer care and maintenance is actually very reliable. Datatek can supply software and a lead for a few sheckles (£11 plus postage I believe - check with him first) that can be used to diagnose EAS faults.

The EAS is much better than coils ride-wise....others may disagree, but coils just don't have the same comfort in my eyes....

Conversions to coils just indicates lack of maintenance, so query and question other service items too, if it is on coils...

post '99 models are considered a better option if your budget stretches that far.

The P38 is more car like and more comfortable to be in, rust A LOT less, and waft along comfortably....but are more complicated when things go wrong...but thats what the kind sould of the LZ forum are here for

I return on average 25.8 mpg with a good mix of town, country and Mway driving...

I have mentioned previously...I love my P38 - I wouldn't get rid of it, but I had more fun in the Classic - as I didn't worry about stracthing it, or it breaking down and the repair bills....but I wouldn't swap the P38 for a classic...I'd have both.

What Saint said !!!

Wow thanks Saint for the detailed reply. I've got to agree part of the reason I love the classic is the tatty looks, no worries about scratching it or letting the dogs in when they're soaking wet etc.
But I do have a hankering for a P38. Sounds like it's a trade-off of rust vs reliability?

uncle nick said:

Wow thanks Saint for the detailed reply. I've got to agree park of the reason I love the classic is the tatty looks, no worries about scratching it or letting the dogs in when they're soaking wet etc.
But I do have a hankering for a P38. Sounds like it's a trade-off of rust vs reliability?

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A well looked after diesel P38 will look after you well They just need a bit of effort. For example the airsprings have a design life of 7/8 years 80K miles. People constantly knock the EAS but spend nowt on servicing it. Looked after it is reliable. Don't forget most people are on this site because they have problems, for every one on LZ with a problem there must be 4 or five with no problems you never hear from

Mine is on coils and I would do it again, I fitted them myself so know the difference in the ride. Just because someone fitted coils does not mean that the motor has a lack of maintenance, I've had mine 2 years and change the engine oil every 3K and all the other fluids once a year, regular wash and wax, waxoil yearly, am a great believer in preventive maintanence than repairs. I work away from home for 3 weeks at a time and want to be able to go to the car park and pick up the motor in a running condition, not sitting on it's bump stops. Personaly I think that the EAS is too unreliable just look at the amount of posts on this forum. If you have the knowlege and time then no problem, but I know what my local garage thinks about EAS and that would be unprintable on here. One of my family is a VAG mechanic and he told me not to buy a allroad for the very same reason. Everyone has there own take on the subject, all i know is that I'm glad I changed. The hot start fix if a decent kit has a timer that switches of after 30 seconds returning the fueling to normal. Mine though well maintained and looks decent is used as a work horse when I'm home so that is another reason I don't care about the EAS.
Davie

Thanks again for all the useful info guys.

So if you had the choice of either spending to fix up your classic or spend the same to get a P38, what would you do?

Depends on how much money you have got...!!

Budget between £2750-£5500 for a 98,99 post 2000 P38 with good history and no faults, maybe a bit more for a mint example.

If the Classic is solid, keep it....I had more fun in my Classic as I wasn't worried about minor comestic incidents from off roading, safari parks, supermarket car parks etc. Also I wasn't to bothered if it conked out, as the repair bill wasn't going to cripple me....so it was in effect fun and worry free motoring (mine was only a weekend play thing anyway).

The P38 is a fantastic vehicle and I wouldn't swap it for a Classic, but whilst it is a great drive, a comfy place to sit, and effectless to drive I am constantly worrying about odd noises, funny smells, odd behaviour and how much it could cost to fix....so not as much fun and worry free as the Classic....

That being said, I would never swap my P38 for a Classic nor would I be without it either....

If I had a Classic I wouldn't be thinking of getting a P38, as the Classic would be more fun....Now I have a P38 I am not thinking about getting a Classic.....

In an ideal world, I'd have both...P38 daily driver, Classic to have fun with...do some mods to it (Lift, chunky tyres, snorkel, under body protection, exhibition rack with tent,) then go off into some wilderness somewhere and camp for the weekend and trundle back home, knowing I can do it all again next weekend....