The whole thing is simpler than it appears: If the fault code is cleared and the system passes it's self test stationary then the amigos(and the fault code) are coming back after the vehicle starts moving you need a new hub, simple as that, and if as you said

tim Powell said:

I understand the way it works

Click to expand...

you really do there's no need for more explanations, if the amigos are coming back straight away after ignition even with cleared code then the problem becomes more complicated

sierrafery said:

The whole thing is simpler than it appears: If the fault code is cleared and the system passes it's self test stationary then the amigos(and the fault code) are coming back after the vehicle starts moving you need a new hub, simple as that, and if as you said you really do there's no need for more explanations, if the amigos are coming back straight away after ignition even with cleared code then the problem becomes more complicated

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thanks you this is clear and concise

yep the fault code clears and low output comes on at about 7 mph
from reading all the stuff on here it seemed like it wouldn't pass after vehicle starts to move if there is a problem in the wiring clips etc

Nice to have a definitive this is not true - thanks

hub is only 12 months old so not too keen to just put in another if something is screwing them up ?
from reading on here from all threads if its a hub thing is either a problem with the ring or a problem with the gap assuming sensor is ok


Ill clean the ring today and see where grease is coming from and then think about another new hub
appreciate your time

tim Powell said:

Ive taken out o ring and tapped them gently

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tim Powell said:

all now tried with no rubber ring

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The O ring serves at least one purpose, but whatever else it does, it makes a difference to the distance the sensor is from the reluctor ring. If you are trying to run without it, you may find your sensor is too close to the reluctor ring, even if there is still a gap. Too close may well be as bad as too far away, as far as the current generated by the reluctor ring is concerned. but then maybe I have misunderstood what you said in the two quotes.
Don't know if it helps but I paid about £60 for my front hub and it has worked perfectly ever since. so you do not have to spend a fortune.
(Sober now by the way, and thanks for not being tough with me @sierrafery!)

Stanleysteamer said:

The O ring serves at least one purpose, but whatever else it does, it makes a difference to the distance the sensor is from the reluctor ring. If you are trying to run without it, you may find your sensor is too close to the reluctor ring, even if there is still a gap. Too close may well be as bad as too far away, as far as the current generated by the reluctor ring is concerned. but then maybe I have misunderstood what you said in the two quotes.
Don't know if it helps but I paid about £60 for my front hub and it has worked perfectly ever since. so you do not have to spend a fortune.
(Sober now by the way, and thanks for not being tough with me @sierrafery!)

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Obviously couldn't wait so back playing with the hub

Have taken it off cleaned ring thoroughly solvent and mechanically and even blasted with air to get shiny clean notches all the way
have receipted sensor with a ring tapped gently and put it all back together
Cleared fault and then taken for a run - all lights back on at 7+ mph
sames fault code

Now going away for a break and maybe a drink with Stanley steamer !!!

If anyone wants to buy a disco with lots spent but still the three amigos from an owner who can't do the final bit
..........

- or swap for a defender with no wiring??

......

local specialist West 4x4 seem great but reluctant to take it anywhere with an open cheque and as its got no mot now wherever it goes it stays or recovers??

concerned they can only do what I ve done and I m not sure any of it is the right fix for this car at this time
?????!!!!!! argh

tim Powell said:

Obviously couldn't wait so back playing with the hub

Have taken it off cleaned ring thoroughly solvent and mechanically and even blasted with air to get shiny clean notches all the way
have receipted sensor with a ring tapped gently and put it all back together
Cleared fault and then taken for a run - all lights back on at 7+ mph
sames fault code

Now going away for a break and maybe a drink with Stanley steamer !!!

If anyone wants to buy a disco with lots spent but still the three amigos from an owner who can't do the final bit
..........

- or swap for a defender with no wiring??

......

local specialist West 4x4 seem great but reluctant to take it anywhere with an open cheque and as its got no mot now wherever it goes it stays or recovers??

concerned they can only do what I ve done and I m not sure any of it is the right fix for this car at this time
?????!!!!!! argh

Click to expand...

now received this ? have you heard of this one ?

Hi Tim

What torque did you do the hub nut up to? The hubs for a Discovery 2 are very sensitive to this and it can cause the ABS sensor to not read correctly.

As I'm sure you know, the torque you have to do the hub up to is enormous, 490 Nm or 362 lbs/foot, but achieveable with a long extension. Others do it with 3/4" drive, I managed it with a 1/2" drive, a longish breaker bar and a tube. I used my own body weight and a bit of maths to work out exactly where to stand on the bar.
Reading what you have written you seem to be pretty meticulous about stuff and believe me, I completely understand your frustration. In my case I ended up having a row with the LR garage I took my car to for a diagnostic when they told me it was the nearside rear when in fact it turned out to be the offside.
My own Foxwell was more accurate than their blessed thing. So I replaced both rears in the end and as far as I know the one I took off was perfectly all right.
I have yet to read a post like the one you found but I have read lots of posts about the difficulties encountered when trying to either undo the nut, or do it up, to that torque. You haven't mentioned it, so I think we all felt you had no problem with it. So does your mentioning it mean it actually is a problem? I do know that a proper torque wrench to go up to that torque is a rare beast and expensive to buy. Which is why we tend to have to find ways round it.

Have you talked to the supplier of your hub? Could it be that they sent you out a duff one? My supplier sent me a front hub when I ordered a rear, so I had to mess about with it to get it to work on the rear but it did work in the end.

I'd be tempted to order another from them and tell them you'll send back the old one for a refund when the new one works.

SF talks about duff hubs coming out with the wrong number of teeth on the reluctor ring, I don't know how this can happen but he really does know his sh1t on all this stuff, so if he mentions it it must have happened. I do not know how many teeth there should be on the ring but if this is the case it could definitely cause your fault.
Have a read of this:
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...n-i-turn-right-need-help.317423/#post-4027708
and then dig around in this, https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...n-i-turn-right-need-help.317423/#post-4027708
Not that it is very heartening but you absolutely are just one of many who have had this problem. Reluctor ring profile, wear and pressure of tyre, etc, etc. All seem to matter.

Bizarrely I am not too far away from you (Ferndown) so if you really need a hand I could drive over to Warsash with my Foxwell, but I am not sure how much help I would be! I could bring my old, but rear, hub and maybe you could put that on and wire it up temporarily to see if the fault goes away, but I have absolutely no guarantee that the hub is not knacked. (The back story behind this has no place on your thread.)

Could at least have a drink!

Final piece of unwelcome advice, could you swap the leads over at the Slabs, i.e N/s for O/s to see if the diagnostic picks this up and that the fault follows the lead?

Just reread part of the thread and noted that the hub is a year old, so the hub and ring were OK during this time. So I doubt any of what i said will hold water. The supplier won't want it back. If it worked fine for most of this time, it cannot be anything on the reluctor ring I don't think unless the ring teeth somehow got damaged, or the wheel took a huge knock and did something to the bearing. Have you tried swapping front wheels over? Do you think a seal could have gone and hence the grease? Could a missing seal have led to accelerated bearing wear?

I have read that the wear sufficient to cause this problem cannot necessarily be felt by hand in the conventional way.

I'll get on with other stuff and get back to you if I can think of anything else.
Best of luck
Stan

Stan thanks its the supplier who suggested torque might be the issue !!
Like you I stand on a bar and get to the right torque that way have done it all my life and luckily body weight has kept up with the cars I like!
There was no big knock but the reason I touched the sensor originally was because a couple of the wheel nuts snapped and its an easy way to change them

I know snapped wheel bolts !!

never had it before - seems like it had all been overtightened at one of those air based garages and me now taking it on and off to sort out bearings hubs etc probably drove them over the edge
Its all a bit dainty for a tonka toy though Given that some owners read the manual and then search out "rock-strewn river beds" and I only go to Tesco
I'm a bit peeved -
Last conversation with a friendly auto electrician who "knows" discoveries suggested it "might be the pump" I think its another bit of advice from someone who hasn't been in the trenches with it ?

my understanding is that any problems like this generate their own fault code and low voltage means low voltage not an off shoot of another problem that doesn't appear on the codes?

Across the threads there's lots of talk of gap too big (sensor to ring) but not heard about being too close.
One aussie on their website even says tap them in till they touch and then pull it back a bit ?!!?!?
I know the D1 have shims and can set their gaps but the D2 is just a push in and don't see how gaps can be adjusted or altered

corrosion of hub under the sensor bracket can lift sensor away from the ring on some cars but mine are clean and shiny

I think I give up

It was £2k have spent £1.5k on bits over last 2 years driven it for 4 years so its still a cheap car would be a good buy for someone who really gets this
just a shame as it must be best for planet and everything to keep it running

am gong on holiday for a week will come back with renewed energy or a ticket to the scrap yard
bw
Tim

I hope you r joking about the scrappy.
Worst case scenario, you give it to a sensible LR or 4x4 garage, they fix it and put an MOT on it, you then sell it. With a brand new MOT it'll be worth tons more and will pay you back for the repair plus more.

OK, so no big knock and yes I have heard of overtightened wheel bolts in stupid tyre fitting places. The bolts are up to the job even in tough use. I had an accident where a right pr1ck smashed into the rear wheel, the rear axle got bent and the tyre shredded but the wheel didn't distort and the bolts were not bent at all.

My advice re swapping stuff over on the ends of the front axle still stands, as does the offer to come over and see if I can help on the ground.

Meanwhile, enjoy the week off.

Cheers Stan

Stanleysteamer said:

My advice re swapping stuff over on the ends of the front axle still stands, as does the offer to come over and see if I can help on the ground.

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+1... swap the hubs and if the fault goes to the other side you know it's the hub. if not i'll tell you more just dont cede cos it's not as bad as it appears... unless you are very unlucky

Good thread for info on the 3 Amigos,

Mine did come back on?? Done the basic First Aid and had to change the sensor cable! Now all ok, couple of hours of work

tim Powell said:

I've scrolled through a million threads and on different web sites and found a world of different but vaguely similar advice
Makes me wonder if anyone really knows the secrets of the d2 abs black magic box??
so far I've done
new brakes shoes rotors
new hubs
option b
New sensors
Long leads to ecu

All part of a long list of jobs that forum has helped me through air suspension side steps swivel joints new rubber
Auto box flush refil and seals etc etc

and now they are back might have been caused by taking sensor out to replace cracked wheel bolts but maybe not ??

Lights on and reader says low sensor output and error code 0440
Looked at voltage from offending wheel nsf
I understand we want 0.9 volt but it’s ac none of my meters read this ?
Friendly lr tech says voltage a waste of time due to a number of issues not least meters
Is this true or how does it get measured I have car up meter connected to sensor wires turn wheel nothing showing on all three sensors I’ve tried
Aids law Fault has obviously happened in time for mot and now its failed and off road

I have replaced the sensor again checked the resistance 1,0 so within tolerance
have removed wing based socket and fitted a long sensor lead straight into slabs
all no difference


Looking through sensor hole there’s blue grease on the reductive ring
JGS very helpful who sold new hub 12
Months ago say it should be clean dry no grease
A number of posts here say grease no problem or even put some on - which is it ?

Brake System works fine mechanically but if lights come on at retest I'm stuffed
using I soft v 1 to read and clear faults
lights kick in at about 10 mph with the warning sound
asking you patient old ones if theres anything I've missed or I can do now except wire it to the oil light (only half joking)

Such a shame that a great car is heading to the big recycle bin unless I get this sorted
thanks

Tim

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Stanleysteamer said:

SF talks about duff hubs coming out with the wrong number of teeth on the reluctor ring, I don't know how this can happen but he really does know his sh1t on all this stuff, so if he mentions it it must have happened. I do not know how many teeth there should be on the ring but if this is the case it could definitely cause your fault.
Have a read of this:

Click to expand...

Just an update finally lost will to live and took to local back street garage genius who just cut through the crap like swarfega through Land Rover grease.
He swapped the two sensor leads over and right hand sensor now in left hand hub shows same fault low voltage
Therefore he said its at the wheel ---- Stanley I think you suggested this earlier now im not sure if I did this but definitely worked for our man (suspect I was scared off at thought of touching ECU connections and wasn't thorough enough ?!?!)

He then took off both front hubs counted teeth and the new one I bought is different from the one on the right hand wheel ?!?!?

How can that be it came as replacement hub for 1999 disco 2??
He bought new hub and replaced it cleared lights and now perfect simples

Cant help feeling that as there are a specific number of fixes and I like most have done them all its a bit of a bugger when it turns out to be a bad replacement hub should be a law against it ?!?!?!

Worth taking note if like me you like buying presents for your disco and think you are doing it good

As my Dad used to say if its working don't touch it

New MOT today car now up for sale as I want a peaceful life

If anyone is interested I have spent about £1200 on bits

Apart from the amigos light car sailed through MOT (light bulb only )
At least we have saved it from extinction and she can now find a new owner to love her

Saga over ?!

Stanleysteamer said:

Others have said that it is possible to buy bearings with the wrong number of indentations in the reluctor ring. but if you bought all hubs from a reputable place, this shouldn't be a problem.

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Apart from my post #26 that you quoted above, this is a quote from my first long post #10, so it deffo was mentioned fairly early on. The teeth can be counted through the sensor hole although it is a bit tricky, need to mark the hub and the axle case and then use the lines to do a full turn while counting the indentations, think the difference between the two reluctor rins is pretty obvious i.e. it is more than just one or two teeth different.
So this is the first case I have come across where this was the problem, although obviously others have had it too.
To my mind whoever sold you the hub in the first place doesn't just owe you a new hub , they owe you the money you spent chasing this problem down at garages.
Glad you have got it fixed. If this was all it took I'd have got rid of my Disco long ago. It was a pain but I fixed it in the end and as a result bought my Foxwell which I do not regret in the slightest. Good piece of kit.
I don't suppose you will listen to me but there are other far more expensive things that can go wrong which you may have already solved. Still if you are going to sell it what are you going to replace it with? Or should we now put our fingers in our ears, start whistling and stamping around the room?
Best of luck whatever you go for.