L

LandiesInThatFrance

Member
Mornin'All

2004 D2 TD5, planning a mild improvement to it for mild off-road use.

Things I WILL be doing -
Will be having a replacement galvanised chassis fitted;
Using 255/65R16 MT's on 8Jx16 wheels (type not yet fixed);
2"/50mm Terrafirma lift kit getting rid of the airbags (yeah nah yeah, I know they are the mutts, but I just don't like them;)
New non-cranked Watts linkage

My question is by way of confirming -
Given the not-extreme tyre dimensions, I've been advised to fit 3 degree castor-corrected arms on the front, and keep the rears standard, and to keep the standard wheel arches. Do we agree?

Will I need to fit a modified front prop, or will the standard double-cardan suffice? Ditto the back prop?

Thanks in advance
 
What do you plan to use it for?

To be honest for mild off road use, you can't really beat standard suspension.

I also wouldn't personally go Terrafirma.

Do you really need the lift? Not saying you shouldn't, but a lot of lifts are utter crap HD springs that make the vehicle horrid on road and bob and bounce about off road with bugger all flex.

If you ever tow or haul the EAS is brilliant as it will self level and adjust for the loads.

Not saying you shouldn't mod the suspension. I own 2 modified Land Rover products. But it really depends on your end goals and badly setup vehicles might look poser cool, but be a large step backwards in terms of capability.
 
You won't need 3 degree caster correction on the front with a 2 inch lift. That's only required for 3 inches and more.
I've been running a 2inch lift with standard arms on our D2 for the last 10 years & it steers arrow straight on its own - without any self centering steering damper - just the original 20 plus year old LR version.

You may need to watch out for tyre - wheel arch contact on the rear dependant on wheel offset chosen.
I use 235/85 x 16 Extreme MTs, but with standard offset LR OE steel rims on the back of the car & the tyres only just miss the edge of the wheel arch edges.
The standard double cardon front prop will be OK (as long as you ensure it's not hitting the front gearbox x-member on full droop). front UJs definitely wear out faster with the lift & the front prop is probably very close to its articulation limits if used in anger with the wheels hanging (I broke the yoke on 1 earlier this year - but it's the first in 10 years)
 
300bhp/ton said:
What do you plan to use it for?

To be honest for mild off road use, you can't really beat standard suspension.

I also wouldn't personally go Terrafirma.

Do you really need the lift? Not saying you shouldn't, but a lot of lifts are utter crap HD springs that make the vehicle horrid on road and bob and bounce about off road with bugger all flex.

If you ever tow or haul the EAS is brilliant as it will self level and adjust for the loads.

Not saying you shouldn't mod the suspension. I own 2 modified Land Rover products. But it really depends on your end goals and badly setup vehicles might look poser cool, but be a large step backwards in terms of capability.
Click to expand...
TVM; my missus and I currently have 5 Landies of various types, and being retired we need to not spend quite as much as I'd like; we go laning twice a day, and the Terrafirma gear has been good enough for our now-dead D1. I have pulled our Ifor 3.5tonne trailer with it and not noticed too much in the way of bad manners. At the age of 71, 'poser cool' has long-since lost its meaning.
Pawl said:
You won't need 3 degree caster correction on the front with a 2 inch lift. That's only required for 3 inches and more.
I've been running a 2inch lift with standard arms on our D2 for the last 10 years & it steers arrow straight on its own - without any self centering steering damper - just the original 20 plus year old LR version.

You may need to watch out for tyre - wheel arch contact on the rear dependant on wheel offset chosen.
I use 235/85 x 16 Extreme MTs, but with standard offset LR OE steel rims on the back of the car & the tyres only just miss the edge of the wheel arch edges.
The standard double cardon front prop will be OK (as long as you ensure it's not hitting the front gearbox x-member on full droop). front UJs definitely wear out faster with the lift & the front prop is probably very close to its articulation limits if used in anger with the wheels hanging (I broke the yoke on 1 earlier this year - but it's the first in 10 years)
Click to expand...
 
TVM Pawl; I had a 50mm lift on the D1 and the received wisdom at the time that I built that was that a castor-corrected arm was essential.

WRT wheel/arch contact, I'm assuming that my 255/65s will be a tad narrower than your 235/85s (am I right?) so if my wheels have an offset of 57 (mm?) which was the factory spec, I should be OK even on full swing.

WRT the front prop - I think that if I ever were to get the wheels hanging my passenger would make her displeasure felt ;-)
 
LandiesInThatFrance said:
TVM Pawl; I had a 50mm lift on the D1 and the received wisdom at the time that I built that was that a castor-corrected arm was essential.
Click to expand...
Maybe the D2 had more caster as standard than the D1. The D1 axle was RR Classic / Defender based, whereas the D2 changed to the CV type joints. I think most recommendations for the D2 do not include caster correction for 2 inch lift. You can add it, but it will be at the expense of making the steering heavier - but maybe not heavier than a standard non lifted D2.
LandiesInThatFrance said:
WRT wheel/arch contact, I'm assuming that my 255/65s will be a tad narrower than your 235/85s (am I right?) so if my wheels have an offset of 57 (mm?) which was the factory spec, I should be OK even on full swing.
Click to expand...
Your tyres will have a 2 inch smaller overall diameter compared to mine - 29.1" vs 31.7" (which surprised me), but are only about an inch larger than OE. Yours will be 10mm wider each side - so you'll probably be fine at the rear.
I only get really close when mine is fully articulated, which for more typical off-road use is probably not that often.
At the front, if you use the standard 57mm offset wheels (LR OE steel or alloy rims) you might rub the inside edge of the tyres on the rear of the radius arms at full lock- which is not a big deal, but might reduce steering lock slightly versus either standard size tyres or wheels with greater offset.
I'm not sure about clearance with those tyres and the front bumper on a 2004 / Facelift D2, but on my 2001 / pre-facelift car I had to cut parts of the front bumper away to prevent interference at lock / or lock & articulation - until I replaced the OE bumper with a heavy duty steel bumper.
LandiesInThatFrance said:
WRT the front prop - I think that if I ever were to get the wheels hanging my passenger would make her displeasure felt ;-)
Click to expand...
Lol. I understand.
I'm quite happy to spend a little on regular UJ replacements rather a shed load of cash on a wide angle prop. You'll be fine with standard - just remember to check the UJs every 6 months or so - so you find the wear & can do something about it before the yoke breaks up (my failure was down to getting complacent & not looking at it for a year, then using it very, very hard).
 
I'm surprised at what you said about needing castor correction on your D1 with a 50mm lift. From the beginning of my ownership of ours I had fitted HD springs to the rear as we were doing a lot of fast, heavy, long distance towing and the original rears were put on the front. This gave an accidental 2" lift all round.
Never needed to do anything about castor at all and the truck runs straight and true at all times. On standard wheels and tyres.
 
As none have mentioned, or atleast I did not notice skimming through....
Get an adjustable panhard for the front when doing the lift so You can get the front axle lined up correctly.
 
Pawl said:
Maybe the D2 had more caster as standard than the D1. The D1 axle was RR Classic / Defender based, whereas the D2 changed to the CV type joints. I think most recommendations for the D2 do not include caster correction for 2 inch lift. You can add it, but it will be at the expense of making the steering heavier - but maybe not heavier than a standard non lifted D2.

Your tyres will have a 2 inch smaller overall diameter compared to mine - 29.1" vs 31.7" (which surprised me), but are only about an inch larger than OE. Yours will be 10mm wider each side - so you'll probably be fine at the rear.
I only get really close when mine is fully articulated, which for more typical off-road use is probably not that often.
At the front, if you use the standard 57mm offset wheels (LR OE steel or alloy rims) you might rub the inside edge of the tyres on the rear of the radius arms at full lock- which is not a big deal, but might reduce steering lock slightly versus either standard size tyres or wheels with greater offset.
I'm not sure about clearance with those tyres and the front bumper on a 2004 / Facelift D2, but on my 2001 / pre-facelift car I had to cut parts of the front bumper away to prevent interference at lock / or lock & articulation - until I replaced the OE bumper with a heavy duty steel bumper.

Lol. I understand.
I'm quite happy to spend a little on regular UJ replacements rather a shed load of cash on a wide angle prop. You'll be fine with standard - just remember to check the UJs every 6 months or so - so you find the wear & can do something about it before the yoke breaks up (my failure was down to getting complacent & not looking at it for a year, then using it very, very hard).
Click to expand...
Again, TVM; part of the changes to my D1 was the use of a D2 double-cardan front prop, so I have a spare; and I have new HD D2 front and rear bumpers in their boxes to go on.
 
LandiesInThatFrance said:
TVM, I will bear that in mind.
Click to expand...
You might as well go the whole nine yards since you are doing the Watts linkage too.
As for the front prop, mine felt unworn testing it on the car, so it was only when I took it off that I noticed slight wear and replaced it from a guy who sells secondhand LR parts from a place in Labastide-Rouairoux. Just in case you are anywhere near there. He also sold me spare wheel hubs.
If you are nearish to there pm me and I'll send you a link to him if you want it.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
You might as well go the whole nine yards since you are doing the Watts linkage too.
As for the front prop, mine felt unworn testing it on the car, so it was only when I took it off that I noticed slight wear and replaced it from a guy who sells secondhand LR parts from a place in Labastide-Rouairoux. Just in case you are anywhere near there. He also sold me spare wheel hubs.
If you are nearish to there pm me and I'll send you a link to him if you want it.
Click to expand...
Let's hope he is!😅🤣😂 that's between Toulouse and Montpellier and 638miles from Calais 😅🤣

Kev
 
Badger688 said:
Let's hope he is!😅🤣😂 that's between Toulouse and Montpellier and 638miles from Calais 😅🤣

Kev
Click to expand...
Well he's only put "France" on his profile, so I have no idea. But a blokey joined recently from Montpellier which isn't that far away. Rob who runs the place mentioned is 20 miles from us when we are over there.
Tis such a big country that we drive quite a long way sometimes for stuff, for instance our fave restaurant is 1 1/2 hours away, on the Canal du Midi, but we go there for every celebration dinner! Don't know if we would do it if the country in between wasn't so stunning. ;)
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Well he's only put "France" on his profile, so I have no idea. But a blokey joined recently from Montpellier which isn't that far away. Rob who runs the place mentioned is 20 miles from us when we are over there.
Tis such a big country that we drive quite a long way sometimes for stuff, for instance our fave restaurant is 1 1/2 hours away, on the Canal du Midi, but we go there for every celebration dinner! Don't know if we would do it if the country in between wasn't so stunning. ;)
Click to expand...
Sorry, I should have been more specific - I'm in Isère (38), a gnat's north of Grenoble. Agree about the scenery, we can see Mont Blanc from our garden (yes, even at our age ;-) Tell me more about 'Rob who runs the place'; we're about 3 hours north of Montpelllier.

Oh, and yes please, I'll have the link to the 2nd-hand parts dealer
 
LandiesInThatFrance said:
Sorry, I should have been more specific - I'm in Isère (38), a gnat's north of Grenoble. Agree about the scenery, we can see Mont Blanc from our garden (yes, even at our age ;-) Tell me more about 'Rob who runs the place'; we're about 3 hours north of Montpelllier.

Oh, and yes please, I'll have the link to the 2nd-hand parts dealer
Click to expand...
Rob IS the secondhand parts dealer.
www.facebook.com

Auto Essentiel | Labastide-Rouairoux

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LandiesInThatFrance said:
Mornin'All

2004 D2 TD5, planning a mild improvement to it for mild off-road use.

Things I WILL be doing -
Will be having a replacement galvanised chassis fitted;
Using 255/65R16 MT's on 8Jx16 wheels (type not yet fixed);
2"/50mm Terrafirma lift kit getting rid of the airbags (yeah nah yeah, I know they are the mutts, but I just don't like them;)
New non-cranked Watts linkage

My question is by way of confirming -
Given the not-extreme tyre dimensions, I've been advised to fit 3 degree castor-corrected arms on the front, and keep the rears standard, and to keep the standard wheel arches. Do we agree?

Will I need to fit a modified front prop, or will the standard double-cardan suffice? Ditto the back prop?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
 
Oops! Surfing the net tells me that 255/55 BFG MTs don't exist, but 235/70R16s do. If I go for this size, will I still be OK with stock arms and no lift?

(Treat me gently, tyre sizes are something that I just don't follow.)
 
LandiesInThatFrance said:
Oops! Surfing the net tells me that 255/55 BFG MTs don't exist, but 235/70R16s do. If I go for this size, will I still be OK with stock arms and no lift?

(Treat me gently, tyre sizes are something that I just don't follow.)
Click to expand...
It isn't difficult. Tyre width 235mm, ratio of tyre height to width 70%, wheel diameter 16 inches.
All of those will be approximate, tyre manufacture isn't an exact science, but they will be close enough for practical purposes.

If you can't work that out, I suggest just stay with standard size tyres.
 
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